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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,115

    No the Tories made society an unpleasant place.
     
  2. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    I wasn't aware the Tories are bringing up our kids. I must have missed that on the news.
     
  3. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    Pretty much all the evidence shows that hitting children has negative outcomes. Emotionally, developmentally, academically. The lot.

    If you can present some decent evidence otherwise that goes against many decades of research then please do. I am quite happy to change my mind when evidence says I am wrong.

    Regardless, the day I am told to hit a child in school is the day I resign as a teacher.
     
  4. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    This is just as rubbish as Faustus' position. Are you a more unpleasant person because of a Conservative government? Do they really have that much of an impact on how you act? This is just a variant of the third person effect.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,115

    I dunno, seeing the dozens of homeless people everywhere, the new UC/foodbank article every day, watching as every service grinds to a halt due to lack of funding, councils in debt, schools in debt, "hostile environment"... all the while sitting there ******* smug with wide smiles whenever they're reminded that their policies kill people or endanger peace, when they're apparently the party of fiscal/social responsibility is depressing.

    Yeah i'm kinda annoyed. If you feel that somehow it doesn't affect you then that's just ignorant.

    They have layers of advisers and academics at their disposal for some level-headed policy decisions, instead they just plow on through with the most despicable **** because they "promised" it and it's a ministers duty to protect the policy regardless of how horribad it is. They choose to be this trash, against all odds even in the face of a terrible opposition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  6. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    I probably know more than you the difficulties caused with the cuts in education funding, but I'm not naïve enough to think there is a simple solution for it all. Would I like more money to be spent on education? I certainly would. But the difficulty comes when the question is asked "Where is the money going to come from?" We could take on more debt, but to run day to day business that isn't a great idea. We could raise taxes but no one seems to want to pay them, they always want someone else to pay for it.

    Do I think that some Conservative polices are causing more social problems? Yes, but I certainly don't think they are the cause of all evil especially as pretty much every developed nation has similar problems and isn't governed by the Conservatives.

    If you want to take the simple route of blaming the Conservatives for all the ills in the country then go for it, but prepare to be disappointed when electing another party doesn't solve the problems.
     
  7. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,951

    I think he has me on ignore after I commented on his post about killing off the older generation on the Brexit thread.

    How many kids were hitting teachers, or other pillars of the community in 1980 compared to 2018?

    Are you saying there are less incidents today?

    I have a lot of sympathy with teachers today as I see you have a lot harder job than you did when I was going to school in the 1980/90s. Society as broken down and more often than not teachers end up having to deal with the results.
     
  8. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,457

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Society is fine where I live, most kids are fine at the school, perhaps people are associating with riff raff or living in bad areas.
     
  9. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    I don't actually know. I haven't got any figures for how often it happened then or now. I know teachers are more likely to be assaulted in work than average but don't know how it compares to 40 years ago. I do know that the research has consistently shown that hitting children has negative impacts and negative outcomes so if assaults on teachers are up it isn't likely to be because they don't hit children.
    The vast majority of kids just get on with it, with the occasional difficult class. The really troublesome kids generally have fairly chaotic home lives and you can have some understanding as to why they act how they act in school. Considering the amount that some get hit at home, hitting them at school too isn't really going to improve things.
     
  10. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,457

    Location: Hertfordshire

    We had no corporal punishment in the 80's, in fact it wasn't much different to what I can see from my kids schools. Did you go to a rough school?
     
  11. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    Surely that depends on ones definition of "fine"?
     
  12. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 1,951

    I can agree that the trouble starts at home with a near total lack of respect for the parents. I remember in my day even if you didn't like a teacher you still didnt want to get in trouble with your parents. If they are acting up for the parents then it'll make a teachers job 10 times more difficult.

    I blame some of my generation for the problems we have today. I think they made a knee-jerk reaction in stopping the 'old ways' without replacing it with anything. Whether we like it or not the method of corporal punishment was trying to fix a problem, maybe clumsily. But just removing the method without a replacement as caused some kids today to have little discipline at home. There are so many parents these days that have lost control of their kids by letting them sit on their phones, tablets or computers without having some respect to talk to their family. Maybe the answer is to have group parenting classes, or some other way to get the parents involved, and for this to become 'normal' i.e. not just for parents with troublesome kids. Maybe have continued lessons at home that the parent needs to mark a paper then justify it to a parent-teacher board.

    I went to a 'special' school disabled people. I'd say in the 80s I remember getting a ruler wrapped across my hands a couple of times. Though that was soon phased out. I suspect it was a throwback from the old days and times just moved on. I don't advocate for schools to be carrying out corperal punishment as there would be too much resistance to it. I do think we need to accept there is a general lack of respect in todays society by certain kids. I think we need new ideas for a new era.
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,115

    Maybe if the parents weren't on their own phones or devices the children would care, "do is I say and not as I do", is a terrible strategy that will forever burden your child with a lack of respect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  14. wordy

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 30, 2005

    Posts: 6,773

    Location: Rotherham

    The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

    Job centre?
     
  15. Meridian

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,787

    Location: Vvardenfell


    If Labour actually manage to force an Election (which I doubt) my money would be on another hung parliament, with the Conservatives still the biggest single party. Any GE would be the worst case in many years of "a plague on both your houses" voting.
     
  16. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    It is very unlikely the government and DUP would spin the casino wheel of an election now, anything could happen , the most likely being labour or another opposition party gain more seats.
     
  17. mattcrane

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 29, 2014

    Posts: 573

    Location: Truro, Cornwall, UK

    Most certainly had corporal punishment when I went to school in the 80's, I believe it was banned in 86ish

    Never got the cane myself but was threatened with it that's for sure and I had a friend who got it for something he didn't do.
     
  18. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 19,563

    Location: Cornwall

    Labour are just as divided as the Tories, only with the added bonus of Diane Abbot.

    And they won't win a landslide victory because only about 1/3 of the country have any faith (or trust) in them either. So you still end up with a split parliament.

    And MPs aren't allowing themselves to be whipped on Brexit anyhow. So given that Labour is also split along leave/remain lines, a GE just wastes a bit more time.

    Plus what (some in?) Labour think they'll get isn't being offered by the EU anyhow. Free market without free movement? Yeah, sorry that's not on the table.

    Anyhow, Tories aren't stupid enough to vote themselves out of government, lols. Well, you would hope.
     
  19. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,173

    I fear you may be correct. I can see a lot of delusioned Labour remain going for the Libdems who will go into a coalition with the Tories (with a dodgy new leader) and argue that after they have thought about it a no deal brexit is the best thing for the country afterall.
     
  20. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,225

    it would take 5 years or more to sort the social mess Tory idlogy has caused. Before a positive effect even starts.