1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,166

    As did Corbyn?
     
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    As ever with corbyn, judge by actions, not words.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-36633238

     
  3. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,166

    So again trying to push the blame away from the Tories for brexit. Well done.
     
  4. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    You tried to blame Cameron, who actively and strongly campaigned for remain...
     
  5. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,417

    It was the biggest mistake of his time as PM to give us a referendum, just because the conservatives were worried about losing votes to UKIP.
     
  6. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,389

    Location: London

    What does his support of it have to do with it? He did bring us the referendum and the bailed minutes afterwards.

    Lol remind us again how well his active and strong campaigning went :p.
     
  7. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    The mistake was not holding it sooner, the referendum should have been held over the eu Constitution (2004)/lisbon treaty(2007), where it would have been comfortably won and put to bed for another generation or two.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250

    You can't just suppress the populations desire to have a say. But you can choose your battlegrounds more carefully.
     
  8. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    I didn't say it went well, just that he didn't campaign to leave the eu.
     
  9. Meridian

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,787

    Location: Vvardenfell


    Being better than Livingston is a pretty low bar. But Johnson was a waste of space. He was great at drumming up headlines for BJ, but rubbish at actually doing anything. He took the credit for things that were nothing to do with him, to look good; but everything that was anything he actually did himself was a waste of money. And in the case of the Garden Bridge, probably corrupt as well. They only reasons that anyone thinks he was a good mayor are:

    a) He's a Tory, I'm a Tory, therefore he's good.
    b) I like him.
    c) I know he's a great and wonderful person for he told me so himself. Often.

    Hardly anyone actually looks seriously at his record. Which for his political ambitions is probably just as well.
     
  10. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    I agree with you on Livingstone being a low bar, and don't necessarily disagree with your view on boris. However, there have only been three elected mayors since the role was introduced, and my statement remains true that he is the least worst mayor of london.
     
  11. Meridian

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,787

    Location: Vvardenfell

    I think you mean he was the only Tory one? Khan has neither achieved much nor blown ****-loads of money on vanity projects. But the mayor of London has only limited power anyway. I can't help feeling that your views on Khan are coloured fairly severely by the fact he is Labour. Khan has been a lot quieter than BJ. Howver, my personal view is that you can only really judge a politician at least ten years after they left office. And more realistically, a hundred.
     
  12. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    The killer for Khan for me is nothing to do with him being labour, and everything to do with the rise in crime in london, and his response to it.

    The rise in crime isn't exclusive to London, so I don't necessarily blame him for the rise in crime, but his response to it is entirely his to own, and his response has been completely ineffectual, because it starts with blaming everyone but the criminals.

    https://www.statista.com/topics/4627/crime-in-london/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-46095279
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,166

    You mean like the Ken-Cycle?

    It is astonishing that anyone can say the Boris was a good mayor, but not surprising from Dolph and other Labour haters.
    The fight against crime is already severely hampered by the funding cuts to the police and that is without the rise in knife crime to deal with. I take it you do blame the Tories for the rise in crime then, but just think Kahn should be doing more?

    What is it you expect Khan to do, go round and tell everyone off? Really What do you expect him to be doing?

    Its not a Khan problem it is a government and society problem. At least he hasnt been mayor when riots kicked of (yet). I take it you blame the Tories for that considering not only was a Tory mayor in residents but also a Tory government. Yeah lets blame the Labour guy for all the troubles in the world. I suppose its a step down from blaming Corbyn for everything.

    Its hard to know if you actually truly believe what you say most of the time or are just saying it because you hate Labour so much and seem to have a bit of a problem with muslims.
    I love it. Blame Khan for knife crime but give Cameron a pass on brexit. Classic partisan nonsense from you again.
     
  14. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,384

    Location: Midlands

  15. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    More lies from you, I never claimed that Boris was a good mayor, just that he wasn't as bad as the other two we've had, which is a different argument, especially given the low bar set by livingstone.


    I would expect him to be pushing for both more resources, better use of existing resources, stronger actions against those caught, and pushing for more use from the Met of targeted stop and search etc. He's only really done one of those things.

    Once again with the totally unjustified accusations. I can only assume that you believe it is justified because you've never come across a case of left wing antisemitism that you won't defend, and therefore have to assume that everyone has some sort of problem with race or religion somewhere.

    The London mayor is directly responsible for setting the crime and policing priorities of the police in London. Failure to tackle crime is therefore his fault.

    Cameron campaigned for remain, therefore the fact that leave won is not his fault. You appear to fault Cameron for giving the country the choice...
     
  16. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,166

    For a start he doesnt control the legal system and cant take stronger action against those caught. Or do you mean by theatening them and their families with the loss of their housing like the rules the Tories brought in after the riots?

    He is constantly pushing for more resource its just your overlords wouldnt give him any. Add to that he called for it to be seem as nation health crisis which Hancock laughed at and like you blamed Khan only for Javid to come out and say it is a national health crisis and start to also push for more money to be put in. They only had an urgent meeting about it after Khan was in the press pointing to the lack of resources and lack of funding due to police funding cuts and police numbers being cut.

    It has nothing to do with Khan but everything to do with the Tory government that is underfunding public services. I know you say there havent been any cuts in funding but even you cant deny there are over 19,000 less police on the streets.
    What the hell are you talking about? Im not the one that seems to have a problem with a minority group.
    Dont be silly.
    Of course I can blame him. It wasnt Labour that called for the referendum.
     
  17. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    Are you saying he can't campaign for stronger sentencing etc?

    I'm aware he's pushed for more resources, hence why I said he's only done one.

    Well, I can, because the actual figure is 19,000 less full time equivalent warranted officers, not 19,000 less patrolling the streets, and that's not the same thing.

    https://fullfact.org/crime/police-officer-numbers-have-fallen/


    Once again you make a serious allegation without any sort of evidence. Do I need to reference all the times you have denied antisemitism by referring to your own made up definition rather than the internationally accepted one?

    I'm not, your ignorance isn't my stupidity.

    https://www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/governance/

    You blame Cameron for calling the referendum, but not Corbyn for sabotaging labour's role in the remain campaign?
     
  18. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,409

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Tories have all the blame for this mess, blaming it on Labour is borderline psychotic.
     
  19. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,396

    Location: Plymouth

    I blame both parties, because brexit is ultimately a symptom, not a cause.
     
  20. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,103

    This 100%. If Labour had been in charge they would never have been stupid/arrogant enough to have a referendum in the first place.