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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

    Never mind.
    Dont be silly. They were about the stupidest thing New Labour kept from the Tory days along with right to buy and not allowing/making councils to use those funds to build more houses.
    The answer lies somewhere other than funding cuts. If schools are failing its not because they have too much money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  2. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    Thats what gets me nowadays about avid Tory supporters and why I can no longer vote Tory anymore. Everything is always "its fine to cut money because its only wasted/stolen/abused" Same with some people who seem to equate that having so many homeless and the numbers increasing is just because of the perfectly fair policy that not eveyrbody is entitled to own a home. No where is anybody saying that in order to solve the homeless problem, everybody should be in a position to buy a house. Same with food banks. Clearly they are being abused (I am sure there is some abuse) therefore the whole thing isnt an issue, its just another example of the thieving nature of the peasants in this country and what we need is more laws to come down hard on these people.

    Instead of fixings the problems the only solution by our Government and it seems a lot of its supporters is to just cut the spending and use that money to either cut tax rates or bribe the DUP. I really don't want to be know as a Tory anymore.
     
  3. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

     
  4. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,542

    Location: Plymouth

    I'm not a supporter of the current government, nor do I necessarily object to or reject that some services need more funding, that things such as housing need reform and so on. In fact, I'm a strong advocate of reform in most of those areas.

    What I do object to is the idea that funding increases are an alternative to reform, or that equality of outcome is more important than equality of treatment and good governance.
     
  5. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,418

    How can equality of outcome not be better than equality of treatment if the outcome is because of equality of treatment. Its best to have the outcome be good than the treatment be substandard for some. You keep saying increacesed spending. Thats not what we are talking about it is funding cuts we are talking about. The by sector spending cuts that are causing major issues in public services. No one is saying throw more money at it. What they are saying is stop cutting.

    Inflation increase is not more spending or increasing spending it is normalisation.
     
  6. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,362

    Still, the Tories haven't been accused of anti-Semitism so that's all right then is it?
     
  7. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,049

    Spending less money isn’t really the answer either though, which is effectively what has been happening.

    What reforms would you like to see?
     
  8. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,542

    Location: Plymouth

    The problem with caring about equality of outcome is that it tends to create a satisfaction with mediocrity as an unintended consequence provided the mediocrity is consistent.

    In addition to that, failure to address same situation performance differences is a substantial flaw that occurs. We have a wide variety of educational funding and outcome scenarios that no-one seems bothered to address when they feel there is a political point to be scored instead, which does precisely nothing to help the children getting a substandard service.

    I have no issue with advocating not cutiing funding, I have a big issue with blaming local management failures on central government funding plans, because again it does nothing to actually address the reason that particular cohort are getting a bad experience.
     
  9. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    For once we are in agreement and things need fixing. But to cut funding (in real terms) while ignoring the problem and not fixing it is what is leading to some schools being on a 4 day week now.
     
  10. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,542

    Location: Plymouth

    Here's another example of the defective thinking of focusing on equality of outcome.

    Lady Hale: at least half of UK judiciary should be female

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/mar/24/lady-hale-at-least-half-of-uk-judiciary-should-be-female

    Here, we are viewing gender equality with an aim for equality of outcome (eg an equal split of position) rather than equality of opportunity (gender is not a qualification or restriction against holding the position).

    The likely result of attempts to implement these policies are that you don't employ the best twelve judges for the supreme Court, but the six best male judges and the six best female judges, which is not likely to be the same thing.
     
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,542

    Location: Plymouth

    I don't disagree, but watch people kick off if you try to actually address the problems...
     
  12. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,326

    We can certainly agree on the above.
     
  13. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,326

    Thank goodness it isn’t only me that finds this obsession with positive discrimination and things like female only lists to be utterly ridiculous. I think to get a job under these conditions is actually demeaning and devalues the appointment.
     
  14. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,768

    The Tories have to go. They're so obsessed with Brexit nothing else is getting done.

    When are they going to tackle the increase in homelessness under their watch?
     
  15. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    Not an issue at all according to some Tory voters. Nobody ever said that everybody should own their own home/they are lazy/they are druggies/they are foreigners *delete as appropriate
     
  16. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,542

    Location: Plymouth

    The problem is, no matter how bad the Tories Are (and they are terrible at the moment) the alternative is corbyn's version of the Labour party...
     
  17. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    Yep. My mate hates Corbyn, more so than the EU. He is a rabid leave supporter and posts anti EU and anti remainer stuff constantly. I asked him what would happen if the Tories were going for a soft brexit and even pulled the plug and the only choice of getting Brexit through was Corbyn. He said even then, as much as he hates the EU, he could never bring himself to vote for Corbyn. Ever.
     
  18. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    Clkearly I should have put a sarcastic smiley on my post as I beleive the opposite and think people who think the way I posted are the worst kind of Tory and are destroying the party. Sad times.
     
  19. easyrider

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 24, 2005

    Posts: 38,404

    Location: Autonomy

    Currently the Tory party is a joke.
     
  20. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,809

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...w-15-suspended-councillors-quietly-reinstated