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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 9,375

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Thats just the luck of the draw.

    As has been pointed out, and luckily thanks to Gina Millar, the balance of power does not fundamentally change with the person sitting in the PM seat.
    The overall position of the Tory MPs will not fundamentally change.
    Boris if anything is more likely to crystalise the MPs harder into camps, and if he tries to move to more anti EU he more likely to push more middle ground ones to fight against for example a hard crash out.
    Hes also far less likely to manage to get Labour support.
     
  2. Rilot

    Don

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,612

    Location: Wargrave, UK

    I'm assuming that this means we will get a by-election in Maidenhead now.
     
  3. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 12,768

    Location: Hertfordshire

    All Labour have to do is bin Corbyn and back remain, they would win by a landslide.
     
  4. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 30,644

    Location: Welling, London

    Source?
     
  5. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,240

    Location: Essex

    Did she say she's resigning as an MP too?

    Gordon Brown was an MP until 2015. She could become a backbencher.
     
  6. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 9,375

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    You dont. The media like to portray it this way but you really dont.
    When voting for your MP as well as the MPs own views you should also consider their affiliations, be that with party, and if with party then who else is within that party. If you are unhappy with who they affiliate with then you have your answer.
    Who leads the political parties is purely an internal matter for those parties.
    Nothing stops you joining those parties (assuming they will take you) and as such you can influence who leads them. They are all democratic, but all different in how they function.
     
  7. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 12,768

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Logic. Indication from polls.
     
  8. Steedie

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 19,606

    Location: Oxfordshire

    Corbyn demanding a GE already, surprise surprise! The guy is so predictable, I love how he thinks he has a chance. Absolute ****
     
  9. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 30,644

    Location: Welling, London

    Ex-PM’s very rarely stick around for long though do they?
     
  10. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 30,644

    Location: Welling, London

    Polls taken with a TM led tory party.
     
  11. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,147

    Depends on whether she resigns as an MP.
     
  12. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 20,783


    How can you say this?

    If you vote for a MP who is associated with x party who currently has y Leader, it is implicitly support for the leader. It’s a binary choice you either make them PM or you don’t.

    The logic is literally unable to ignore that. America and France have explicit elections, as an obvious comparison.

    Even without bringing the realpolitik voting ideas the public has (tribalism), this holds the majority of the time, except when the PM that was supported passes the buck.

    Frankly it’s a matter of calling a spade a spade, I really wish MPs were their own voice all the time, but that I believe has never been the case, even the last few years of ‘betrayal’... there is still a lot of tribalist MPs who do a disservice to their station.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  13. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,240

    Location: Essex

  14. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,147

    What else should he do? Trust me I am no fan of Corbyn but calling for a general election makes sense.

    The next PM doesn't have to do it but I would certainly expect Corbyn to call for it.
     
  15. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,240

    Location: Essex

    There will be another GE. I would bet on it.
     
  16. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 9,375

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Well its down to personal interpretation. Its literally not the case, but if you for example liked the current leader of a party but disliked highly all the rest you would have to accept your own risk.
    Look how many times UKIP changed leader post Farage.

    Our system is our system and the rules are very clear. If you choose to make them something they are not then thats why you will seemingly end up with situations you don't like.
    Whether that feels right or not is a different debate. The problem with directly voting for the most senior position is that you can end up with them out of line with the power in the house.
    You could say the PM has to be elected, say within 3 months of taking office (IE a forced GE) but in scenarios like we face today potentially you end up with a zombie PM, unable to command their party, unable to govern, but not kick out of power by their own party as they would lose power and a zombie PM of their colour is better than the other "team" getting in.
     
  17. UTmaniac

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 4,941

    Location: Here

    I'd love to see Ken Clarke put his name into the hat (even though his previous three attempts failed to win), from what little I've heard he has had been one of the most sensible Tories I've heard during the last three years of chaos... I could see him simply revoking Brexit on financial grounds.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  18. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,001

    Location: London

    I honestly think Ken Clarke walked through the wrong door when he was picking which party he was going to join. Everything i've ever hear heard him say sounds like a LimDem then anything else. I don't know why he didn't cross the floor decades ago
     
  19. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 20,783

    Doubt it, he’s only still in his seat because he’s too old to cross the floor.

    He knows his party is dead.
     
  20. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 11,598

    Location: Here and There...

    She will sit (very occasionally) quietly on the back benches until at least the next general election when she will quietly retire to a career in the house of lords. No way will she trigger a by election now she is a party first conservative so wouldn't risk it.