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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

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  1. Jimbeam3678

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 8, 2002

    Posts: 17,216

    Location: North Yorkshire

    I'd recommend listening to his LBC interview he certainly seems to add at least some detail in his plans. I'd never really heard of him until the end of this week.

    He seems to have different ideas to simply saying I'll deliver brexit trust me! Think we've all heard that before :p
     
  2. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,146

    Unless he is a very good actor he is a one nation conservative that accepts the real world for what it is and looks to deal with it. Which is a huge change from the deny everything and blame everyone else approach which got us into this mess.
     
  3. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 11,714

    Location: Here and There...

    But if they don’t shut parliament it will block no deal it has shown this repeatedly the only way to force through no deal which will be unprecedented in such circumstances and I would expect it to bring the government down plunging us into total chaos in the middle of crashing out of the EU.
     
  4. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,544

    It wont because they arent comparing them to him, they're comparing them to eachother in spite of his absence.

    Some of the more rigid actually sensible tories aren't voting for him anyway.
     
  5. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,320

    He mostly seems to be empty soundbites to me - casually promising things that are extremely difficult to achieve with no real substance as to how he plans to achieve them. I haven't heard any actual detail that isn't just hand waving yet.
     
  6. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,544

    They're all empty soundbites from all of them, if the last couple of decades hasn't proven this...
     
  7. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,322

    In terms of leadership his team have made a calculation it will be to his advantage I suspect they are correct.

    Given the type of leader the country needs (a seriously good one) this kind of wise monkey tactic is not exactly reassuring.
     
  8. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,320

    Yeah but what I'm trying to say it some things are more believable as achievable, without too much detail, than others and the more significant the departure from the current trajectory the more detail is really needed to be in any way more than just soundbites.
     
  9. singularity

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 1,038

    Just remember what May said she would do.... Lower your expectations if they can go any lower
     
  10. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Probably so. Johnson's popularity depends on bluster and flag-waving, figuratively speaking. He can dominate in low-brow formats but a civilised debate like this would harm him.
     
  11. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,263

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Well we watched the Tory **** Off.

    Boris was too coward to turn up. I hope that really hurts his chances. The snivelling wimp.

    Gove came across like the unpopular kid who watched a political movie last night and thinks he can impress everyone by impersonating the political speeches in it. Utterly unconvincing.

    Hunt, apparently wearing his brother's suit, seemed nervous throughout and his best line was his defence of Gove snorting coke which does make me wonder whether there's a 25 year old somewhere who just found out who their real dad is.

    Javid was surprisingly impressive, I thought. He seemed passionate and convincing, and much more capable of answering questions that Gove, Hunt, and - obviously - Boris. I can see him reaching out beyond the usual party base, but it's the party base who will elect the next PM so he's the wrong colour. The country may be ready for a British Pakistani PM (I'd have been much more convinced of that five years ago!) but the Tory Faithful are far more racist.

    Raab may have benefited from my stunningly low expectations but he came across as far more reasonable than I expected from what I've read him saying, and read about him. Still the worst possible candidate. Except Boris the Lying Cheating Coward obviously.

    Rory Stewart was easily the stand out best candidate. I guess it's no surprise that the more centrist candidate would appeal to me among a bunch of Right Wing turds but he talks a good game on compromise and listening to everyone, and had plenty of thoughtful, clever answers to the questions. He easily got the best reception from the audience too.

    My opinions are, of course, utterly irrelevant to the Tory elections - and even if I were planning to vote in the next election I wouldn't vote for even the best of them - but I hope that Rory's wider appeal and Boris's snivelling cowardice might cut through to those who are electing the next PM. This may seem slim hope, but remember that the Tory Members chose Cameron's pitch for the middle ground over David Davis's hard right vision.

    Of course, as we know now, Cameron's pitch for the centre ground turned out to be so much horse **** and perhaps that is a lesson for how we interpret what the Tory candidates are saying today.
     
  12. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,737

    That was the plan from the opposition. But the precursor vote they had last week failed. It was trying to bind the next PM to remove no deal from the table.
     
  13. jpaul

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 8,326

    I didn't think Christian guru murphy was really competent to compare this - was he just being fed replies through his earpiece, like the crass, you weren't invited to the banquet remark. (will the BBC be Dimbleby)

    The candidates did very little original thinking re-packing/wording the replies and tack provided by the earlier answers to the same question.

    Negiligible criticism by candidates of Boris(May neither) , or, did I miss the question "why should Boris not get the job"

    Agree on Rory Stewart's good presentation.
     
  14. Lord-Jaffa

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    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

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    I just don't think he has the persona and charisma that a strong leader requires, he has the presence of a weasel.
     
  15. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,544

    So? I'd rather the most boring technocrat over a succession of increasingly bigoted *****.
     
  16. Lord-Jaffa

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

    Posts: 5,651

    Location: UK

    So a person with charisma and leadership skills can only be a bigot?

    You honestly do post some real garbage.
     
  17. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,322

    I can't work out if he has the mind of one as well. Something of a dark horse.

    His experience of Iran and Afghanistan dealing with aggressive tribal warlords and big man politics.

    Handy skill given the current state of the c. party and indeed other parts of the world.

    Given the potential short- term nature of leadership charisma may not be the most important thing.

    Diplomacy and the ability to negotiate in a hostile enviroment is what we need.
    No idea what his record looks like here though.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,544

    Right now the choice is between Boris, Corbyn and whoever leads the BP in the commons, what about them aren't bigoted?

    Gove, Hunt and Rabb have shown to be totally disgraceful and useless ministers, Javid seems to atleast be competent and Stewart attempts to be a human being.

    We lost leadership material decades ago, what were left with is the dregs that this country is willing to vote for, which i guess is unsurprising. They're just a bunch of chancing seat warmers looking to big themselves up for huge salaries at the end advising companies on how best to screw the British public over.
     
  19. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

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    Location: Hertfordshire

    Well at least they all agreed on Brexit ......ah
     
  20. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,962

    The upsides to doing a political debate vs the downsides don't make sense if your already the clear front runner.

    That's true for any politician not just BOJO

    TV debates aren't really an established 'thing' (yet) in the UK even for national elections never mind party leader nominations and why would you want to risk an unpredictable situation of any kind if you could avoid it?
     
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