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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    Oops, yes!

    I was right about Stewart though, the new yougov poll shows stewart voted the poorest leader by Conservative voters. I feel the message he's saying would appeal to other parties more than his own party, which would be good if he did become Tory leader to creating a consensus in parliament. But unforunately I think he won't get there to get the chance.

    Three quarters of Conservative Party members think Boris Johnson would be a good leader
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...-quarters-conservative-party-members-think-bo
     
  2. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    It's a shame about Stewart, I don't like any of the others on my perception of their characters but I couldn't support Stewart purely on his Brexit stance. I think Stewart for the Conservatives is a case of right man but wrong time.
     
  3. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,123

    Javid is as high as he is specifically so the Tories can point at him and say "See, we're not racist!" Javid himself is even more racist than the average Tory MP to prove that he's "one of the good ones". Never forget that when he became Home Secretary, this man said he would deport his own father had he come to the UK today. He's vile and a hypocrite.
     
  4. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,624

    Location: London

    I think his bemusement at not getting invited showed exactly where he and the party really are in terms of progress. Baby steps Javid, you're only one of them in a limited capacity.
     
  5. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,287

    They are all Tossers, ideology driven with out single bright idea behind them. All in the pockets of lobby groups up to the eyes.
     
  6. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

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    Location: Kiel, Germany

  7. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    I think I heard that the next vote will take place before the next BBC debate on Tuesday. So the last will be eliminated, and also anyone failing to get the 32 votes. That's quite a high number.

    Boris, Hunt and Gove were all above the 32 votes.

    Raab was 27 so needs 5 more votes.
    Saj was 23 so needs 9 more votes.
    Stewart was 19 so needs 13 more votes.

    It will be interesting if Raab, Saj or Stewart increase their votes and get above 32 as it would show they had some momentum.
     
  8. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 3,884

    I reckon Stewart will. There's already been a few new MPs who have publicly declared support, and more will likely follow.

    Raab won't. His team will be looking primarily at the MPs who supported Leadsom and Morduant, but I suspect most of them will flock to Boris.

    Javid could go either way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  9. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,692

    It seems likely Stewart will at the moment, this is one person Johnson does not want in a debate along side him, which also applies to Gove. If you remember Corbyn was brought in at the last moment so all sides of the party were represented in the first labour leadership contest and his support accelerated rapidly. To some degree the same could happen here.
     
  10. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,509

    I think it'll be next to zero change for Boris directly, and the rest are just jostling for second place so they can be the name of the ballot paper. 4 for them are so close together
     
  11. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073

    I was wondering if Jeremy Hunts new found support for Trump and Katie Hopkins attack on 'Khan's Londonistan' is a backdoor way to attempt to pick up some votes from team Javid.

    All part of Hunt's new polite/ but firm/ Iron man /but a gentleman/ of the right posturing; but does look like there may be a degree of targeted dog whistling by association.
     
  12. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

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    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Stewart is the anti-Corbyn though. Whereas Corbyn appealed to the hardcore members, and not to the public at large; Stewart appeals to people outside the party but not in. I'll be flabergasted if Stewart wins baring something spectacular.
     
  13. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    So in short, Javid's appointment to very high positions is now evidence of racism. As I presume would be his non-appointment. You have an unfalsifiable case that whatever they do, the Tories are racist. Maybe Javid's father is not a nice man. I would presume Javid has a better knowledge on the subject than you. That's assuming he ever did say that he would deport his own father. I can't find any such statement to support your claim.

    My impression of Corbyn is that he has quite a lot of public support. A lot of younger people flock to him.
     
  14. Mr Jack

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    He's had solidly negative approval ratings pretty much throughout his time as leader. It's true that Labour have very strong support in the youngest age groups though.
     
  15. Mr Jack

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    I totally agree that it's in the past (although, afaict, Gove did a lot more than try it once), what I find more troubling is the hypocrisy of then pushing harsh drug laws on everyone else. His introduction of a rule banning teachers for life for something he did himself is an extraordinary double standard.

    I didn't say Tory MPs, and I don't think their MPs are all that racist, more of them are casually racist in the vein of Boris than out and out racist; but I do think that the Tory members are to sufficient degree to be a problem for Sajid Javid.

    No, he's simply wrong, and working off the wrong analogy: we're not buying a car here. No Deal is not a useful threat because it doesn't solve a single thing. This isn't a negative sum game; the best outcome is one that is as positive as possible for both us and the EU. It isn't about compromise, it's about finding a solution that works. No Deal simply means we end up in a much, much, worse negotiating position when we come to try and solve the same set of problems. The Irish border doesn't go away; the EU will still want the money we owe; we still need to make arrangements with our most important trading partner; EU citizens in the UK, and us Brits in the EU, are still going to be there (not that the UK government shows the slightest sign of caring); and so on. The difference is that No Deal imposes a crisis, putting us in a desperate position, and means that the deal agreed needs to be agreed under much stricter terms on the EU side.
     
  16. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

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    The guide I normally use is the bookies odds as they will rapidly go out of business if they are not up to date and reasonably accurate.
     
  17. h4rm0ny

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    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Socialists usually do. :/ I was vaguely Socialist myself once (though more apolitical really). I recall being determined not to lose my ethics and sense of justice when I got older like a lot of people seemed to do. What I wasn't prepared for was finding it wasn't so much a shift in my morality as a shift in my view of what actually worked and what didn't. (And perhaps a greater appreciation for how hard earning a good living can actually be and it's not just a matter of having money because you're privileged).

    I haven't followed it closely enough then. If that's the case, then it's pretty hypocritical indeed. There's a concern with teachers doing hard drugs given they will be taken as an example by children. But lifetime bans are not right.

    Well someone else took up your point and carried it much further than you did. There's likely some racism I'm sure. But it seems shaky to me to think that it's a barrier to him being PM when he's had such a long and illustrious career in the party already. Also, slight tangent, but racist people often overlook it for people they have accepted into the group without ever realising the illogicality of it all. More than a few times I've heard variants on "oh, he doesn't count" by people who will make racist comments about some group but think the one member of it they actually know just happens to be a non-conforming exception somehow.


    Well I agree with nearly everything you said, but I still don't see how upfront saying we'll accept anything rather than walk away isn't giving up our bargaining power. I get the idea of mutual advantage - I agree with it. But we can't say "we wont give you Y if you don't give us Z" when it's followed by "if you insist on Y and wont give us Z, ultimately we'll accept that." And I understand that to an extent no deal is so costly to us that they may call ANY suggestion that we'll walk away a bluff. But unless that's a possibility we're at a severe disadvantage. I don't think Raab is wrong in that.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

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    Maybe in the puerile world of winning an argument Rabb isn't wrong in his poor schoolboy politics (the fact that he didn't know a thing while he was Brexit Secretary just shows him up to be useless MP he actually is, then he threw his toys out the pram), but this isn't schoolboy politics, it's one of the biggest trading blocs in the lands who will still get a slice of the UK market regardless of having a deal, this might be different under the regime of a recession, but we aren't there yet globally.

    To be fair we wont be talking with the current leadership for much longer, as the EU gears up to shift presidencies and what not, but we wont be getting a drunken idiot like Juncker, they'll not make that mistake again, god knows who it'll be, assuming it isn't drawn out due to the shift in seats this year.

    Rabb simply isnt winning either way, he's just a discount Boris with even less intelligence (Boris under that thin veneer of awful jokes, is actually a incredibly precise personality).
     
  19. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 30,709

    Interesting comments about Labour ^^^

    I don’t have any huge problem with Corbyn’s so-called ‘principles’ - it’s his inability to commit and obvious game playing that has turned me off him. It’s just as bad as the Tories!
     
  20. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 62,172

    Kind of curious one that - a lot of these people would traditionally be more centre ground but have no real home there currently, Corbyn it seems is the next nearest thing from their perspective. He has also swayed some of them by giving the appearance of being in their corner over things like tuition fees without really committing to anything.

    I see nothing wrong, even a lot of positives, with being socialist leaning if you can mix it with some pragmatism and a broader minded approach.