This is seriously our last chance. I want to see another poll. The latest one is using data from before the murder.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)
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This is seriously our last chance. I want to see another poll. The latest one is using data from before the murder.
They are a giant tick, feeding on us. Isn't the chief tick Junker expected in the uk soon? Hope they pour him a large scotch before he waffles on.
I'm a confirmed leave voter. If remain win, which is now looking extremely likely to me off the back of Jo Coxs murder, we will be staying in, so might as well stop messing around on the edge of Europe and throw ourselves into the fire.
I'm a confirmed Leaver, but thought the EU would win before Jo Cox's tragic murder and think they will still win after Jo Cox's tragic murder. I think you're right though - once we're in we'll have to go in further. It might take 20 years but they'll find a way to force us into the Euro. I can see for example, them making a law saying that each member state's armed forces recruitment must be opened up to all EU citizens in the near future, paving the way to expand Eurocorps into an EU army.
I think that's a matter of opinion swayed by which side you agree with, I doubt you'll find any steadfast remain voters who agree with the statement that the leave campaign has been objectively more truthful, less dodgy, whatever else.
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I honestly do think the General Public are using the actions of the nut job Tommy Mair as an excuse to remain. They are following like Sheep. What a backward barsteward he is!
I cannot shout it about the Streets, but the majority of the one time Brexiters need to get a grip! And come Home!
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Again, whether or not someone agrees with that is going to be down to point of view. It'll be contentious no matter what happens.
It'll be interesting to see if the statisticians can figure out how much effect the murder had on the polls. If I remember right there has always been a considerable chunk in the "don't know" camp, and come voting day they generally vote for the status quo anyway.
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I doubt it either, I could accept if people were happy to accept the free votes and win regardless because they felt the EU was the best option but something about remain supporters seems to involve a lack of morals or a lack of inward criticism
I pointed out a few issues the extra leaflet spending, kicking people out of using the civil service who are still in government, the extra voices added to there campaign from those who are just wanting to back cameron to promote there political career, the death of an MP just 7 days before the referendum that held it up for a day or two and the constant scare mongering. They've both lied, no doubt but when did the leave campaign get these benefits? Not to mention leave had less manpower and less funding so obviously if they manage to pul a win out that means they won with less ability, less tricks and with the MP's death swaying some favour to the other side. If it's a close win for them then you'd have to acknowledge those reasons played a factor in the unequal debate but if the remain was close then how could we not see it as a failure of the debate? Either way, let your biases dominate your view if you wish but I'm only saying it would be suspect, not that we'd need to tear down the regime. People keep wanting to pass it off as a point of view but it's not, the remain side did spend extra public funds, it did have people backing it just out of fear of losing there position, it did have a death of an MP hold the referendum up for 2 days which would swing some favour with temporary sentiment. That's not opinion regardless of how some want to deny it due to there own bias causing them to. It seems you're happy to say there's excuses lined up but come acknowledging the differences of the campaign suddenly it's excuses too.
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I doubt it either, I could accept if people were happy to accept the free votes and win regardless because they felt the EU was the best option but something about remain supporters seems to involve a lack of morals or a lack of inward criticism
the extra leaflet spending, kicking people out of using the civil service who are still in government, the extra voices added to there campaign from those who are just wanting to back cameron to promote there political career, the death of an MP just 7 days before the referendum that held it up for a day or two and the constant scare mongering. They've both lied, no doubt but when did the leave campaign get these benefits? Not to mention leave had less manpower and less funding so obviously if they manage to pul a win out that means they won with less ability, less tricks and with the MP's death swaying some favour to the other side. If it's a close win for them then you'd have to acknowledge those reasons played a factor in the unequal debate but if the remain was close then how could we not see it as a failure of the debate? Either way, let your biases dominate your view if you wish but I'm only saying it would be suspect, not that we'd need to tear down the regime. People keep wanting to pass it off as a point of view but it's not, the remain side did spend extra public funds, it did have people backing it just out of fear of losing there position, it did have a death of an MP hold the referendum up for 2 days which would swing some favour with temporary sentiment. That's not opinion regardless of how some want to deny it due to there own bias causing them to. It seems you're happy to say there's excuses lined up but come acknowledging the differences of the campaign suddenly it's excuses too.
Good post TBH.
If you'd care to line up my list of supposed excuses, like the list of excuses you've compiled about why a win for remain will be dodgy but a win for leave will be justice in face of adversity, I'm all ears, because I've not been posting anything of the sort, merely pointing out that people would likely not agree with your statement despite your belief it's completely objective and not influenced by your own pro leave bias.
Good for you, with that kind of attitude it is a wasted vote!
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Not your excuses, you did say though
'Judging by the growing list of ready made excuses, certainly not leave voters.'
So you're implying people are ready to make excuses then come acknowledging that if the vote was close we'd have a potential issue if it was n favour of remain then the excuses came out that it's just a matter of opinion depending on which side you support. It's not opinion but oh well, no point in arguing it forever so lets leave it at that
I already pointed out in my previous post why as well, both sides lied but one side had more things in their favour so it wasn't an equal debate so if it's close that makes us wonder if it was just a failure on their side. I never even mentioned camerons failure to debate his fellow tory MP's leading the out campaign either. Anything for a skewed vote. Does Cameron not dictating the way the debate goes by refusing to debate the leaders of the other side also not indicate some flaw in the debate?It's not pro leave if I point out several facts as to why it would merely be suspect. You're already grasping for more straws and excuses but we'll leave it at that I suppose.
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You don't even know which way I intend on voting, or if I've even decided yet, you're happy to pigeon hole me as 'grasping at straws'? Quite what straws I'm supposed to be grasping I'm not sure.
The only straw grasping I see going on is the leave supporters readying themselves to explain why they lost and why it wasn't fair before the voting has even happened, it's not exactly an attractive prospect for any current impartials.
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I don't have to know which way you're voting, if you're presenting valid observations from a neutral perspective (on this matter in particular) of where the vote has been skewed or differs as bias then it doesn't matter. You can add to the debate if you wish, present some ways the out campaign has had extra funding, temporary sentiment, dictated who will debate who or anything similar. If you can't then don't just sit around and present observation of factual events as bias. It's an excuse regardless of which side you want to present yourself to be on. The straw was suggesting I'd post this merely due to bias so was you not trying to pigeon hole me by your own logic? I've just pointed out a few reasons and when you challenged me I had another pop to mind with camerons way of refusing to debate key figures on the other side. It shows the campaign could have been ran bad and that is up for debate regardless of your pigeon holing it to being bias.
No one is trying to excuse anything, it's just a debate on some relevant factors. Try and paint a picture as hard as you can and in as negative light as you want but it's only more bias on your side. If you refuse to accept fact and complain at excuse while throwing out your own then don't expect people to trust that sort of hypocrisy. Either way there's nothing more to be said. People can view the comments and make their own minds up. In the end who cares what people say, the result will be final but there's nothing wrong with looking at how the campaigns are ran.
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And I'm sure they will.
The government took a position on the referendum and so used that to put out a leaflet. In my opinion, it's wrong that they did that but it's quite bizarre to expect government resources to be used to campaign against the government position.
What? You're objecting to Remain because more MPs are backing this? You think that there aren't Leave campaigners looking to their own career (*cough*Boris*cough*)?
Seriously? You're saying the Remain campaign has been worse because a pro-Remain MP got murdered? Do you even think before you type?
It's not scaremongering to point to independent experts saying that Brexit will make us worse off at both the household and country level.
The Brexit side has had the support of the biggest newspapers in the country, and the campaign raised more money for it's various campaign groups. If Remain wins it will be against a backdrop of years of newspapers and politicians using the EU as a scapegoat for everything and its dog.
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NSFW but this sums up the referendum "debate" pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGC5S3ag1q0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGC5S3ag1q0
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I don't find it bizarre at all, given there was quite a large proportion of elected MP's who were on the out side then I believe they should have equal access. Like you said yourself, it was wrong so either neither side should be getting preferential treatment or both should get the same access. In the end we can acknowledge the governments position without a biased and unfair debate and forcing out other elected MP's. Like you said yourself, it might have just been better they didn't send out a letter that even had the public creating a petition to stop because it was seen as corrupt and not productive. What was bizarre was that Cameron thought that would be a reasonable way to start off the campaign and expect no one to acknowledge the way it biased the campaign. The government is made up by the MP's so it's a funny argument to say that it is purely the governments position to be in the EU because that is not right, obviously the PM wants it that way but it reeked and so we had the petition from regular people who acknowledged it. You don't have to take my word for it in that regard, take the word of everyone who voted against it.
Who said I object to remain? I merely stated that is a fact that would highlight that if the out campaign won they would have done so with less manpower and so that does give some credence to there side *if* they do win but it's not a slander on either side. We can't help how many MP's choose to side either way and the more backing remain is a positive thing for them, it highlights they are the prime choice of most MP's.
Now you're just twisting words to make a debate out of sensationalism. Read the words carefully and you'll see I never accused them of abusing that situation, I acknowledged it's effect on public sentiment though and noted it to be a temporary effect that shouldn't play into the debate (considering it was also from a mentally ill man) so wish it didn't cause any fluctuations but merely acknowledge it could cause some swing. Do you even think before you type? You seem to have rushed to a quick conclusion of what is the most offensive interpretation of words I didn't say in order to suit your side.
No it's not, I actually agree on that side and feel the economic argument is firmly on the side of the remain team and vote out on other reasons. Fact is though there has been scaremongering and even george osbournes budget that shouldn't effect us for 2 years highlights a readiness to jump on our backs before the effects are even seen. Regardless of the factual statements by some financial industries there has definitely been scaremongering in regards to that budget, asking who wants Brexit, maybe PUTIN and ISIS lol.
Then that is a fair assesment of something that could help sway the vote on the Brexit side that I acknowledge. See how this works? If you have valid points I will accept them and I am happy for others to add to the debate but baseless mud slinging and screams of bias as seen before were not productive and neither is some of the misreading and misrepresenting of other things like MP's deaths. That could be true, there could be some hatred of the EU based on national newspaper representation but that is also part of the EU's failure to make itself and it's policies public knowledge and within the public view so although acknowledgement can be made of scapegoating there is some issue with ignoring the EU's faults in that regard.
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My daughter (first time voter) received a leaflet from the 'leave' campaign titled up 'official referendum information' and full of 'Euro Facts'. All in the same font as the voting card. A bit like a phishing email and rather sneaky I thought.
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