Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Danthus]

No we are not, technically EU members are in both but being EEA only is a lot different. That has a lot of laws that we would benefit from that we can't whilst in the EU. EEA countries can restrict EU immigration, pay less into the EU, are still able to freely move across Europe, can set up their own free trade agreements and have a free trade agreement with the EU.

The EEA is based upon the four freedoms, including the free movement of goods and labour.

 

[scorza]

Central to the Leave argument has been the issue of freedom of movement. If, by some miracle, there is a vote to Leave the EU then any action taken by Parliament which ignores this will be a betrayal of British democracy.

 

[delta0]

The EEA is based upon the four freedoms, including the free movement of goods and labour.

The rules of both are different.

 

[Six6siX]

Central to the Leave argument has been the issue of freedom of movement. If, by some miracle, there is a vote to Leave the EU then any action taken by Parliament which ignores this will be a betrayal of British democracy.

Any democratic vote needs some sort of arbitration/ratification in context whichever way it goes. Relying on the vote alone over a very contentious issue where a win by either side may be by a very small margin is not representative.

 

[Locky]

Delete

 

[Freakbro]

Maybe not Merkel but the EU are trying.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/countries-refusing-to-accept-refugees-could-be-fined-hundreds-of-millions-of-pounds-a7012761.html



What a great trading block this is.

You guys make me laugh, in that laughing at stupid people when they do stupid things kind of way.

We are members of a club that has rules, now when some of those members don't follow the rules...let's say, for example the Eastern Europeans when they refused to take the Refugees (Refugees remember, not economic migrants) people rightly moaned about the fact they are taking the benefits of being in our club, the grants etc, but no-one does anything when they ignore their other responsibilities.

Now they are putting in place mechanisms to do something about it, you moan at that too!

Your bias makes you very irrational

 

[Locky]

If, by some miracle, there is a vote to Leave the EU.

Miracle really?

 

[RaohNS]

That goes back to my earlier comments about the fallacy of democracy in the UK S6S.

I think the Leave camps biggest expectations are:
- saving money
- set own deals
- remove imposed mandatory fmop

Secondary is all other things.

 

[John40]

This week - Osborne says mortgages to rise by £1500.
Last week - House prices to fall 18% making new mortgages cheaper.

The bloke's a fool.

 

[RaohNS]

You guys make me laugh, in that laughing at stupid people when they do stupid things kind of way.

We are members of a club that has rules, now when some of those members don't follow the rules...let's say, for example the Eastern Europeans when they refused to take the Refugees (Refugees remember, not economic migrants) people rightly moaned about the fact they are taking the benefits of being in our club, the grants etc, but no-one does anything when they ignore their other responsibilities.

Now they are putting in place mechanisms to do something about it, you moan at that too!

Your bias makes you very irrational

But most of the people coming are not refugees. Most of the real refugees are blocked or being held by Turkey. The club does have rules, of course but where the people of that nation are strongly against it their wishes should not be cast aside because a bit of ink says otherwise. If it is unfair or there are genuine concerns (which we know their are) then they cannot accept them until agreements can be made.

As an example: I believe we should take in Syrian Refugees with primary allowance given to minority religious groups eg Yazidis and women and children under 12. I do not agree with tens of thousands of health young men with mobile phones coming in. Refugees not migrants.

I do agree with what the crux of your post is about but this should have had better forward planning. Considering the money some of these people are on it should have been sorted before there needed to be the consequence of what your quoted poster highlights.

 

[[TW]Fox]

This week - Osborne says mortgages to rise by £1500.
Last week - House prices to fall 18% making mortgages cheaper.

The bloke's a fool.

Well not really, it's possible for both to be the case (though the numbers sound exaggerated ). Borrowing costs can increase due to higher interest rates separately to property values falling.

And a fall in property value doesn't reduce the mortgage value for existing homeowners.

So careful with phrases like 'fool'

 

[John40]

Well not really, it's possible for both to be the case (though the numbers sound exaggerated ). Borrowing costs can increase due to higher interest rates separately to property values falling.

And a fall in property value doesn't reduce the mortgage value for existing homeowners.

So careful with phrases like 'fool'

I mean't to say new mortgages and have now changed it.

 

[Mr Jack]

Isn't that what some Brexiteers propose, anyway? It's not as though Brexit support = necessarily being against the single market.

I've been told repeatedly on here that "no-one" is suggesting that we leave the single market, and the same claim has been repeated in many a video. There's no reason that a post-Leave-vote government shouldn't take us back into the EEA. In fact, since I suspect the overwhelming majority of Remain voters would prefer that option and some of the Leave voters do, I would argue that there is likely more public support for that option than any other.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Polling guidance cards sent out by Bristol council, you couldn't make it up...

 

[Tunney]

And this is the problem with leaving the EU - everyone voting to leave has their own idealised view on how Britain will function after exit. There's no plan or even consensus. It's going to be a real mess if we leave and many who voted to leave are going to feel betrayed when their particular flavour of life outside the EU doesn't become reality.

 

[scorza]

I've been told repeatedly on here that "no-one" is suggesting that we leave the single market, and the same claim has been repeated in many a video. There's no reason that a post-Leave-vote government shouldn't take us back into the EEA. In fact, since I suspect the overwhelming majority of Remain voters would prefer that option and some of the Leave voters do, I would argue that there is likely more public support for that option than any other.

Shouldn't there be a debate in Parliament to assess the different options, rather than just the pro-EU MPs deciding themselves what our fate would be? Michael Gove while on the Leave campaign trail has stated he wants to have access to the single market, but not be in the single market.

In any case this is a bit premature, first Leave has to win the vote. I read yesterday that the pro-EU campaign had managed to get an extra million young voters registered in the last few days. Good news for democracy, but not good news for Leave.

 

[Six6siX]

That goes back to my earlier comments about the fallacy of democracy in the UK S6S.

I think the Leave camps biggest expectations are:
- saving money
- set own deals
- remove imposed mandatory fmop

Secondary is all other things.

I don't think any democracy can be 100% aligned to the definition. It's especially true (and actually I think, important that it isn't) when it comes to matters like this.

Even if we assume that the 'Leave camp' expectations and priorities you mention are as such, a number of people (even in this thread) don't see it the same way and take their view based on isolated reasoning - more often than not, around immigration alone.

To a lot of people, it's like voting in the General Election for a party that has one policy you really really agree because you're sick and tired of the way that particular thing is being handled with, but at the same time remain blind to everything else in their manifesto.

That's not reflective of the consequences of this election - i.e. the outcome isn't just impacting immigration - there's far more at stake that isn't being considered by a lot of voters that will affect everyone in this country - and that that will affect everyone is scarier if the 'win' by one side is marginal.

 

[Mr Jack]

Polling guidance cards sent out by Bristol council, you couldn't make it up...

Here's the full graphic:

When you deliberately slice it out of context it looks bad but if you look at it in context I doubt a single person would be influenced by it. In any case, they modified the graphic in response to complaints so no more looking like this will have gone out.

 

[Freakbro]

But most of the people coming are not refugees

Debateable, but anyway that's a different issue and not what the article is about. It is specifically about countries being fined for not processing applications for Asylum...which would then weed out the genuine refugees to economic migrants.

As an example: I believe we should take in Syrian Refugees with primary allowance given to minority religious groups eg Yazidis and women and children under 12. I do not agree with tens of thousands of health young men with mobile phones coming in.

I have said this many times, but I really don't get this line of thinking. War pays no respect to social class, I don't see how an affluent middle class civilian is any less entitled to flee a war zone to save their lives than a poor one?

And since the people coming to the EU are paying people traffickers, they are the ones with money....the poor ones are still in the camps on the Syrian border. And what's with the 'mobile phones' statement, I guess you're in the camp that moan unemployed people have 'flat screen TV's' like we are still living in the late 80's where mobile phones and flat screen tv's were the preserve of the rich, unlike now where most of the world have them

Also, I know your meaning by saying health[y] Young men, as if that means they should stay and fight. Really? Have you seen and/or read about what's happened in Syria. How is an unarmed, untrained civilian going to do anything about Govt forces dropping barrel bombs on their homes or heavily armed militia shelling then storming their towns.

They aren't military, they are civilians, of course they can leave to stop being slaughtered.....that's just sensible!

 

[scorza]

Here's the full graphic:

...

When you deliberately slice it out of context it looks bad but if you look at it in context I doubt a single person would be influenced by it. In any case, they modified the graphic in response to complaints so no more looking like this will have gone out.

The "context" doesn't change it a bit. If there wasn't a problem with the leaflet then they wouldn't have changed it once they were called out on it.