They want you to vote Remain because the people who will give them jobs and benefits when they leave Politics will benefit from a Remain vote, so that's what they're told. The fact David Cameron and George Osborne are wanting us to remain in the EU should tell you which way to vote.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)
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They want you to vote Remain because the people who will give them jobs and benefits when they leave Politics will benefit from a Remain vote, so that's what they're told. The fact David Cameron and George Osborne are wanting us to remain in the EU should tell you which way to vote.
I've asked you this months ago and I don't think you bothered to answer that. Do you completely understand how your local council works? Or our government for that matter.
What exactly do you mean by "get a grip on" ?
To control it? Well, no obviously they wouldn't - that's not how it's meant to work
I understand my local councils (District and County) and UK government a lot better than I understand the EU.
Can you for example tell me - without looking it up; what's the difference between the President of the European Council and the Presidency of the Council of the European Union?
What exactly do you mean by "get a grip on" ?
To control it? Well, no obviously they wouldn't - that's not how it's meant to work
I mean get outcomes that benefit the UK.
No I can't, as I already said that basically no one knows and that's why I think this whole thing is ridiculous to be decided by general public.
Such as the free movement of people, socially and for business, free trade agreements, single market, control over immigration, boosted local economy, more power in the world economy? That sort of thing?
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Do you get that organisations like the EU are deliberately designed to be "complex" so they can have a lot of very well paid jobs that no one really understands? The top end of business and politics is just filled with old blokes doing favours for each other which they decide over a few rounds of golf, honestly that's how it works
If the system isn't easily understandable, then that's not the general public's fault.
Unsustainable levels of migration, free trade agreements that work for German exporters but not for British business, unprecedented levels of risk to the UK economy thanks to the Euro, unnecessary interference, power wielded ineffectively.
All of which have been discussed in this thread in great detail as counter arguments. However, my question still stands: are the benefits I mentioned the sort that you mean?
Not really, because I don't particularly regard them as net benefits. The sort of outcome I was talking about was for example, getting the rebate on our contributions to the EU.
Could you provide some insight into why you don't consider the points I listed a net benefit?
Not sure how a rebate on EU contributions is an outcome that would be seen if the UK 'got a grip of Brussels'.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
It isnt that confusing.
We'll do ok outside of the EU. Seriously, we will. The UK won't cease to exist as we know it. I don't think anyone is credibly arguing otherwise.
For me there are pros and cons to remaining in the EU and pros and cons to leaving the EU. Personally I feel the pros of staying vastly outweigh the cons and that is the basis of my view.
Thats half the problem with this whole debate - ridiculous emotive rubbish from both sides that does nothing but devalue the respective arguments.
Will there be World War 3 if we leave? Of course not. Does the EU promote peace within Europe though? Absolutely it does. We we all go bankrupt if we leave? Of course not. Will be, on balance, worse off? I think probably, yes.
Imagine a debate where the pros and cons are intelligently debated and facts are used to backup arguments instead of just constant garbage about mass wars and 88 million benefit stealers coming our way.
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Leave all the way!!
EU is a sinking ship.
Would be treason to vote remain.
EU is a sinking ship.
Would be treason to vote remain.
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Soldato
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Im interested why this is. You might be right but on the track record of the EU so far my guess is no we'll eventually be worse off then just staying as a United Kingdom trading normally with any other country of the world including EU.
I think the EU is going to shoot itself in the foot with all its grand gestures and quite extreme economic policies via the ECB. I hope they do ok but it seems to be going that way. Either way we can vote out this government if they screw up, I feel there is far less control of that errant situation on continent and we could easily turn out much better off avoiding it.
Any precedent to suggest EU will go onto success in how it handles Euro, bad debts or whatever is likely to stumble into their path I'd be glad to hear
I agree on the point of diplomacy EU is a positive but its also a nest of bureaucracy and failed oversight
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As is their right, only a berk would answer every cherry picked trick or moronic question.
I just have done - unsustainable levels of net migration to the UK for example is the negative consequence of free movement of people. IMO it outweighs any benefit we get from it.
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And we still project power well beyond our size. But that's not the point. Whoever that Mod was is talking as though we can't survive without the EU and it's just nonsense. There are too many youngsters who can't remember life pre-EU.
We'll be fine.
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[TW]Fox;29590091 said:
From previous posts you must feel let down by the stay campaign as you have highlighted their claims.
I am a leaver but can sympathise the real debate never got out, it was shrouded but these ridiculous claims.
I think we have all been let down.
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