Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Simon]

Please don't say we have any meaningful effective method of getting rid of the EU lawmakers compared to our own government. It is pathetic to even suggest this. I really hate it when remainers spout this.

Self determination and freedom to trade and to set up trade deals with any country in the world is worth a little tax hike in the long run.

We do this already though, look at China.


What I find odd is many people who moaned about the UK government and how things are much better in other countries are now saying we are better alone as if our government is great and will unify all the leave utopia world ideas as one.

This vote is going to be based on emotion only, if it wasn't then why aren't UKIP in power already?

 

[Mr Jack]

Please don't say we have any meaningful effective method of getting rid of the EU lawmakers compared to our own government. It is pathetic to even suggest this. I really hate it when remainers spout this.

Who is 'we' here? The European electorate, as a whole, have a reasonable ability to hold the EU to democratic account. I don't expect the British alone to choose the direction of the EU anymore than I expect Leicester South alone to determine the direction of the Westminster government.

 

[norm]

Would you vote to join the EU in its current state?

The notion UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone is farcical. Iceland a much smaller country manages fine.

 

[RaohNS]

We have democratic self-determination now. In fact, we probably have more than we would have outside of the EU. By working with the EU, and pooling sovereignty on certain issues, we exert more control over the global factors that influence the UK. Leaving the EU would make our country far less influential globally and - critically - in the region closest to us and with the most influence over us. And, of course, it remains the case that the UK government has far more control over our lives than the EU on almost every important policy area - education, tax, healthcare, benefits, etc.

So by being in an undemocratic club... We are more democratic? But we wouldn't have less impact globally, that's a fallacious statement to make. This country has trillions to offer investors and high quality service run sectors. We have our colonies that were abandoned including the worlds largest democracy. Trade with us wont halt because a cut of 45million or so people don't vote for the "right" choice.

same point applies to having lawmakers accountable to us. The vast majority of UK law is made in Westminster, and being part of the EU means we have direct democratic representation in the international arena, whereas if we leave the EU our only representation on the international stage will be by proxy. Should we - as I still think is most likely - rejoin the EEA soon after leaving the EU, we'll end up being bound by most of the same laws but with far less control over those laws. I do not see this as an improved accountability.

Obfuscating this matter. If we leave the EU pur representation will be by proxy? No it wont it will be direct. We will decide. the truth is that your statement is a lie. Now we access representation through proxy... That proxy is the EU. Can this lie be stopped now before we have 6 further pages

for control of our bodies: we do have border controls (except with the Irish Republic) as we're not part of Shengen. Freedom of movement means that every British citizen can live, study, and work anywhere in the EU (and a few bonus extra countries) which is such an enormous benefit and freedom to us all I am amazed how cavalierly the Leave camp want to abandon it. For now, it also means our country, exchequer, and economy are benefiting from high levels of immigration. Also a good thing.

Every British citizen could still do that though. Its a funny element of misinformation this: My cousin is studying in Spain with Americans and Canadians. According to remain this should be impossible . We can still allow our Universities and European Universities cater for each others talent. Both are mutually beneficial. High levels of immigration needs to be dismantled though. Immigration is generally a positive thing. But we are seeing city sized imports of labour every year.

We can currently trade with the world, and we do. What you're talking about is throwing away our preferential trading arrangement with our largest market in order to possibly, some time in the future, make some new deals with other markets we do much less trade with. This does not seem to me to be a net benefit for the UK.

And we can continue to do so. What are you so scared of to copy a few bits of trading regulations and requirements. The EU wont say no because of the free movement otherwise we may well have had millions of chinamen coming over from the trillions in trade the EU gets.

BRICS will be the future commodity and trading markets. Unless the US gets its way with B of course, its already trying it on with R and C

 

[Mulder]

The European electorate, as a whole, have a reasonable ability to hold the EU to democratic account.

How exactly? And don't say by voting for an MEP, most people don't bother as they understand that the European Parliament has no power.

 

[estebanrey]

We would change the rules, though, wouldn't we? So it's pointless using figures suggesting we wouldn't do so... it misrepresents the impact of a Brexit.

We would change the rules but if they were the same for everyone we wouldn't be seeing the number coming over from one relatively small part of the world (The EU) almost matching the number coming from the rest of the world.

Do you think the current fact that an EU national is 13 times more likely to move to the UK than a non-EU national simply down to geographical proximity?

 

[Glaucus]

Would you vote to join the EU in its current state?

The notion UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone is farcical. Iceland a much smaller country manages fine.

its farcical when people compare such silly things, their economy, population etc is vastly different. the two cant be compared at all.

and not one person is saying we cant negotiate our own trade deals. just that those trade deals, along with the kicking the pound will take. means we will be worse off.
just the uncertainty alone will deaden the economy some what and make us worse off.
so many quotes in this thread including yours on why public are not educated anywhere near enough on the matter. should have had it in a few years time after some proper education, or leave it like everything else to the experts, who at least have a better understanding.


and yes many of us would vote to join the eu,

 

[Tunney]

The notion UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone is farcical. Iceland a much smaller country manages fine.

No-one is suggesting that the UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone. Remain supporters believe that that we'd simply get better trade deals as part of the EU.

Iceland hasn't managed fine. Its economy collapsed and the country defaulted on its debt. A country the size of the UK defaulting on its debt would have a catastrophic effect on the economy.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The notion UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone is farcical. Iceland a much smaller country manages fine.

Which credible people in the campaign have actually suggested that? It seems to be a strawman invented by Leave.

 

[estebanrey]

No-one is suggesting that the UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone. Remain supporters believe that that we'd simply get better trade deals as part of the EU.

Better for whom? Big Business

 

[sityeuropa]

Which credible people in the campaign have actually suggested that? It seems to be a strawman invented by Leave.

Do you think the UK is a tinpot country. Of course it will get to making trade deals. Benefits us and whoever we are trying to trade with.

It's a no brainer. They might be more willing as well knowing the EU isn't getting in the way anymore.

 

[RaohNS]

its farcical when people compare such silly things, their economy, population etc is vastly different. the two cant be compared at all.

and not one person is saying we cant negotiate our own trade deals. just that those trade deals, along with the kicking the pound will take. means we will be worse off.
just the uncertainty alone will deaden the economy some what and make us worse off.

and yes many of us would vote to join the eu,

The principles of the trade can be though. Every market is different and they can agree the trade deals for them. We could say Switzerland has a deal with Cbina. But by that logic we cannot compare that either, but these countries have done something which remain are saying we can't do because we are different. Laughable and a lie.

We would agree a trade deal to suit us. Switzerland wouldn't turn around at a trade deal we in the UK made and say oh well we can't do that and give up... They would create their own.

That's the trade element of the remains argument debunked

Deaden the economy? We could just wait foe Greece to mess up or some other country in the EU and bobs your uncle. Euro rates for pounds have been steadily declining. Thus the pound is doing better.

If the UK leaves the Euro wil take a kicking too as the EU has effectively lost billions

 

[Danthus]

Which credible people in the campaign have actually suggested that? It seems to be a strawman invented by Leave.

Exactly, the issue isn't securing a deal, it is securing a deal with the same preferential terms.

 

[Glaucus]

The principles of the trade can be though. Every market is different and they can agree the trade deals for them. We could say Switzerland has a deal with Cbina. But by that logic we cannot compare that either, but these countries have done something which remain are saying we can't do because we are different. Laughable and a lie.

We would agree a trade deal to suit us. Switzerland wouldn't turn around at a trade deal we in the UK made and say oh well we can't do that and give up... They would create their own.

That's the trade element of the remains argument debunked

Deaden the economy? We could just wait foe Greece to mess up or some other country in the EU and bobs your uncle. Euro rates for pounds have been steadily declining. Thus the pound is doing better.

If the UK leaves the Euro wil take a kicking too as the EU has effectively lost billions

still posting your trolling nonsense.

So which countries which we have trade deals with are suddenly going to magically improve. Its not like the Eu bans us from trading with other countries. We already trade with other countries and its a small percentage. With nothing stopping nay goverment improving trade.

Switzerland is in a horrible position they pay as much into the eu per head as we do, have free movement etc. why anyone uses them as a good example is bonkers and yet again shows lack of understanding. their governed would love to join the eu, the only reason they don't is they had a referendum.

 

[[TW]Fox]

That's the trade element of the remains argument debunked

The single market is more than a trade deal. Nobody is saying we won't be able to trade, of course we will. They are saying it won't be as good as it is in the single market which is more than just 'a trade deal'. You go on about trade deals as if they are all the same.

If I buy something from Canada, I am charged duty on it. If I buy something from France, I am not.

Euro rates for pounds have been steadily declining. Thus the pound is doing better.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/13/twelve_month.stm

Really?

If the UK leaves the Euro wil take a kicking too as the EU has effectively lost billions

If the UK leaves the EU then the Pound will take an even bigger kicking on the international currency markets than it already has. Given that we import more than we export, this means increased prices.

 

[Skunkworks]

Exactly, the issue isn't securing a deal, it is securing a deal with the same preferential terms.

Supply & demand wont change, and going against what is mutually beneficial to punish us will just bring more ire on what’s left of the EU.

 

[MattTheTall77]

No-one is suggesting that the UK couldn't negotiate its own trade deals and operate alone. Remain supporters believe that that we'd simply get better trade deals as part of the EU.

Iceland hasn't managed fine. Its economy collapsed and the country defaulted on its debt. A country the size of the UK defaulting on its debt would have a catastrophic effect on the economy.

Iceland has recovered up to a point though haven't they? In part due to being able to control their currency and economy? Better than Ireland it seems from an article on the Washington Post last year:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/17/the-miraculous-story-of-iceland/

 

[Glaucus]

If the UK leaves the EU then the Pound will take an even bigger kicking on the international currency markets than it already has. Given that we import more than we export, this means increased prices.

its worrying, how this is being left to a public who largely don't understand even the most basic economic principles. Let alone anything more complicated like eu regulations.

 

[Danthus]

Supply & demand wont change, and going against what is mutually beneficial to punish us will just bring more ire on what’s left of the EU.

Why is a country within the EU going to let a country outside of the EU sell into it under the same terms?

 

[jimjamuk]

Many of the Remainer's keep coming out with this magical Veto we possess - and I agree we do have one but has the UK ever used it and if it has what was the result? I know the EU is a large place so there must a good amount of horse trading and watering down of proposals just to get everyone to agree but when we have used our veto what has actually happened - I don't recall we have ever blocked anything or at least that is my view.

So when the next potential 5 EU countries finally get to the start line and can officially join the EU (I don't care if that's tomorrow or 20 years down the line) what will our veto be worth if those countries have spent billions bringing themselves up to EU standards. Someone will raise our Veto and then some underhand deal will be done where we'll get some nice lump sum to spend in the UK and then those countries will join.