Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[jimjamuk]

Why is a country within the EU going to let a country outside of the EU sell into it under the same terms?

When they want to sell us their goods in return. We aren't called Treasure Island for nothing you know

 

[RaohNS]

still posting your trolling nonsense.

So which countries which we have trade deals with are suddenly going to magically improve. Its not like the Eu bans us from trading with other countries. We already trade with other countries and its a small percentage. With nothing stopping nay goverment improving trade.

Switzerland is in a horrible position they pay as much into the eu per head as we do, have free movement etc. why anyone uses them as a good example is bonkers and yet again shows lack of understanding. their governed would love to join the eu, the only reason they don't is they had a referendum.

Trolling nonsense? What are you on about? You've just had your assertion dismantled and are now refusing to accept it.

Thanks Glaucus you just said and showed your contempt for democracy. Switzerlands people spoke out. That's their affair and their business and their choice.

 

[MookJong]

On ITV news last night they showed a shampoo / hand soap factory where the boss wanted to leave the EU. They pointed out that a lot of the signs at the factory were in both English and Polish and that quite a percentage of the workers were Polish.

This was quite confusing for the news as they didn't seem to understand that most people are ok with immigration. We just don't want people rocking up in this country with no job or accommodation to go into and being a drain on the system.

 

[estebanrey]

its worrying, how this is being left to a public who largely don't understand even the most basic economic principles. Let alone anything more complicated like eu regulations.

It's called democracy. If you believe we should live in a technocracy, then either campaign for it or go and live in China.

 

[Glaucus]

haha dismantled. you did nothing of the sort.
now yet again posting nonsense.

where did I say that wasn't their right?

 

[Glaucus]

It's called democracy. If you believe we should live in a technocracy, then either campaign for it or go and live in China.

not at all.

we do not have a direct democracy and never have. yet again people not understanding basic things. there are many types of democracy. and Direct is the worse of them. Also as I said in an earlier post, you could spend a couple of years educating the population before having a referendum. instead of rubbish from both sides and any sensibility got thrown out before any campaign started. we could also easily pass laws that mean people promoting either side had to back up info from credible sources.

oh and when was china ever a technocracy

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's called democracy. If you believe we should live in a technocracy, then either campaign for it or go and live in China.

Or perhaps he should go live in a representative democracy which addresses his concerns by allowing the people to elect people to represent them, rather than involving the people in direct democracy.

Oh wait

 

[bam0]

How can any of you not want the basic principles of

• Democratic self determination.
• Lawmakers that are accountable to us the British people.
• Control of our own borders.
• Freedom to trade with the wider non EU world and not waiting for a 28 block nation to work out all the fine details of each country (slow progress)

Those worried about trade, do you honestly think in 2018 there will be no 18reg BMW driving on our roads. Something will get worked out. The other countries will lose too much if it isn't.

The points above to me are basic rights for any democratic country. Why would you want to give these away. I am shocked so many people even support remain. I'm bewildered.

Cornwall has no democratic self determination, the lawmakers that impose laws on the Cornish are unaccountable to them, Cornwall doesn't have control of it's own borders, Cornwall has no freedom to trade with the wider non UK world.

It's a matter of scale, as someone who will vote Remain I just don't care about the sovereignty arguments, the population of the EU is as capable of voting out the EU Parliament as the UK population is of voting out the UK Parliament. And conversely the UK population is as incapable of voting out the EU Parliament as Cornwall is of voting out the UK Parliament. I don't see the rest of the EU as others, outsiders.

On trade, I'm sure there will be new BMWs, I'm also pretty sure they'd cost more than they do now and what worries me is that our exports would cost more in Europe. Yes we import a lot more from the EU than we export to it (by £24bn), but would we really have many other options to replace those imports and can we really afford to lose any of our current trade? People say the economics aren't everything, but sovereignty isn't going to provide the money to run our public services.

 

[[TW]Fox]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-migrants-likely-job-UK-British-citizens.html

Interesting set of stats - even for a Daily Mail article.

It'd be fun to see how the various sides spin these as they can offer support to both Leave or Remain depending on your point of view..

 

[RaohNS]

The single market is more than a trade deal. Nobody is saying we won't be able to trade, of course we will. They are saying it won't be as good as it is in the single market which is more than just 'a trade deal'. You go on about trade deals as if they are all the same.

If I buy something from Canada, I am charged duty on it. If I buy something from France, I am not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/13/twelve_month.stm

Really?

If the UK leaves the EU then the Pound will take an even bigger kicking on the international currency markets than it already has. Given that we import more than we export, this means increased prices.

That's my point they aren't the same! We would negotiate based on compromise not what someone else tells us. As an example the last 40 things the UK govt wanted to change through the EU were rejected.

I pay duty on things from all over Europe as well. A particular T-Shirt comes to mind from an EU country that I had to go and pay an extra £11 on. The state pays for the privilege of having tariffs removed.

Yes really fox:
www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fromGBP&to=EUR&view=10Y

Outfoxed there my friend. Stick a line of teen on that from the crash ...

But if we negotiate our bi-lateral trade agreements through the WTO (which we would be a part of) then we would pay a lower tariff base rate than we do currently... Ergo we save.

 

[George Hincapie]

Well you are suggesting that numbers could fall, I am showing you that that isn't happening right now and you can't explain why.

Like with many people who wan't to leave they can't back up their reason to leave.

Of course numbers could fall. But why do I need to explain to you how that could happen? Can't you work it out yourself?

 

[[TW]Fox]

I pay duty on things from all over Europe as well. A particular T-Shirt comes to mind from an EU country that I had to go and pay an extra £11 on.

You don't pay duty on purchases from within the EU.

Yes really fox:
www.xe.com/currencycharts/?fromGBP&to=EUR&view=10Y

The link doesn't work but I can guess what it says as I'm familiar with the 10 year Euro chart. What it shows is a continuing appreciation of the pound against the Euro, as you argued was the case. But this appreciation comes to an abrupt end as the Brexit jitters really begin to set in.

So, effectively, the spectre of Brexit has derailed the trend. That must be because the markets know how much more valuable the pound will be if we leave, right? Whoops. If you honestly think the pound will soar if we leave the EU then best you get buying as there is some money to be made by going against the market if you are right

But if we negotiate our bi-lateral trade agreements through the WTO (which we would be a part of) then we would pay a lower tariff base rate than we do currently... Ergo we save.

Why are you so convinced of that?

 

[RaohNS]

haha dismantled. you did nothing of the sort.
now yet again posting nonsense.

where did I say that wasn't their right?

Yea dismantled. Because we would set the deals... Not our proxy who charge for the privilege.

Switzerland have their arrangement based on what the people wanted.

we do not have a direct democracy and never have. yet again people not understanding basic things.

And this referendum I going to be what exactly? We are doing something here, now that we could not do in Europe.

You do know a referendum is direct democracy don't you

 

[Skunkworks]

Why is a country within the EU going to let a country outside of the EU sell into it under the same terms?

 

[Danthus]

Of course numbers could fall. But why do I need to explain to you how that could happen? Can't you work it out yourself?

There is no evidence to suggest that any government wants to reduce the numbers.

 

[=RAGE=]

I'm OUT!

I copied this from another forum. Sums it up for me.

If you don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Here is the EU put simply.


A son goes to his Dad having saved up some money from his weekend job.
Son “ Dad I’ve saved up £350 pounds to buy the new laptop I need for my college course”
Dad “Well done son, give the money to me and I’ll help you”
Son “Ok now what?”
Dad “I will allow you £185 pounds back less my handling fee of £5 so £180 which you may only spend on a new phone”
Son “But I need a laptop!”
Dad “No, we’ve decided you can only buy a phone and you may only buy a phone from Germany and it must be pink. You must also source the phone within 2 days otherwise I will not release the money”
Son “But it’s my money!”
Dad “I’m afraid you are a member of this family and you must contribute to everyone else’s needs. I will decide how the money is spent”
Son “So what happens to the £165?”
Dad “Well your sister needs a new dress”
Son “She has already had many new dresses”
Dad “We’ve put it to the vote and I’m afraid you’re outvoted”
Son “But I need a laptop to continue my course!”
Dad “My decision is final”
Son “But that’s not fair, will I ever have a say in how my money is spent”
Dad “No, and by the way we’ve got a couple more people moving into your room and you’ll have to pay for their keep”
Son “Well I’m leaving then”
Dad “Don’t be like that lad, we need your money. And if you leave you won’t be able to buy a pink phone from Germany you’ll have to buy one here instead”
Son “I NEED A LAPTOP!”
Simples

 

[balky12]

The more the in/out argument goes on the more I feel the way in which individuals will vote was decided when they were born and how intrinsically risk averse you are.

No one knows with any accuracy what will happen either way. For example all the doom and gloom that was predicted when we didn’t adopt the Euro didn’t come to fruition.

A famous person once said ‘He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life’

Then again I am in the out camp and not very risk averse.

 

[RaohNS]

You don't pay duty on purchases from within the EU.

The link doesn't work but I can guess what it says as I'm familiar with the 10 year Euro chart. What it shows is a continuing appreciation of the pound against the Euro, as you argued was the case. But this appreciation comes to an abrupt end as the Brexit jitters really begin to set in.

So, effectively, the spectre of Brexit has derailed the trend. That must be because the markets know how much more valuable the pound will be if we leave, right? Whoops. If you honestly think the pound will soar if we leave the EU then best you get buying as there is some money to be made by going against the market if you are right

Why are you so convinced of that?

I better go and get my £11 back then!

Oh I get it... Your argument lost so straight back to project fear. Hows Dave?

Time will tell won't it.

 

[Danthus]

And therein lies the problem, when question may leave supports can't give you an answer.

 

[George Hincapie]

Did you honestly all think a mainstream party leader would take part in something that isn't heavily controlled/scripted? Cameron would have run away from a real improvised debate like a scared child like he has done before.

I know. Incredibly frustrating.