The German millionaires who want to pay more tax

scorza

scorza

scorza

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article6949251.ece

Good chaps, shame that there's no equivalent organisation in the UK though - I guess that's thanks to Mrs Thatcher encouraging us all to be selfish. Very interesting article, especially the parts highlighting that the gap between rich and poor is actually wider in the UK and why they think this is a bad thing (in Germany).

As members of the top 3 per cent wealthiest members of this country, we are deeply convinced that the rich should contribute more to cope with the financial burdens that we are dealing with in the economic crisis. Wealth is an obligation. It needs to serve the public welfare.”
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The problem is that unless the system creates an equality of opportunity, then the system isn't free and fair. The "capitalist dream" (my terminology, the American dream died a long time ago) requires this sort of equality. It's not just a case of raising taxes, you also need a decent, challenging public education system, an effective police force which does not tolerate low-level anti-social behaviour and a pragmatic media. Unfortunately a lot of these things will come down to government funding and that means tax. I know a lot of people think that it's unfair to expect the rich to pay proportionally more of their income in tax, but according to Vermögende für eine Vermögensabgabe, "Wealth is an obligation. It needs to serve the public welfare."

Lastly, a bit of food for thought from John Christiansen of the UK Tax Justice Network:

When I talk to people in the City and ask them what they think the average household income is they say £40,000 to £60,000 when it’s less than half of that. It also seems extraordinary to me when I hear people come back from holiday in France or Italy or Germany or Scandinavia and say, ‘Oh they seem so much more settled there’, or hear about the genuine anxiety that I think runs throughout the classes that this country isn’t working, and yet the rich don’t make the connection that these are countries where there are very high redistribution of wealth.
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How depressing :(
 
Ah.... communism. (socialism). Not for me I'm afraid.

<- this guy isn't wanting to pay for to proles to live beyond their means.
 
There's someone on slashdot with a signature that says "I love paying taxes - with them I buy civilisation". The trouble is that in this country our government pee money up the wall on stupid stuff, and do the sensible stuff so inefficiently, that we really don't get value for money.

I'll pay higher taxes if they'll use them properly.
 
Germany is such a well organised and efficient country, would happily live there tbh :D

Absolutely everyone lives in big 4-5 bedroom houses, when i went on the german exchange with school in 2005, i had my own double bedroom and my own bathroom with massive jacuzzi style bathtub and shower!

When he come to mine, he had to share a room with me and a normal sized bathroom between everyone :(
 
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Megahurtz400 said:
Germany is such a well organised and efficient country, would happily live there tbh :D

Absolutely everyone lives in big 4-5 bedroom houses, when i went on the german exchange with school in 2005, i had my own double bedroom and my own bathroom with massive jacuzzi style bathtub and shower!

When he come to mine, he had to share a room with me and a normal sized bathroom between everyone :(
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You heard it here first fokes. Everyone in Germany had a 4-5 bedroom house with en-suite jacuzzi.
 
It's a far better idea for rich people to give to charity, who spend money much more efficiently than the state ever manages.

Indeed, that is what people do in this country, because the government (past and present) has never been able to convince people they are providing value for money.
 
Dolph said:
It's a far better idea for rich people to give to charity, who spend money much more efficiently than the state ever manages.
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Are charities doing an effective job in Africa? As far as I can see they've just created countries that are massively dependant on Western charities and the donations that come from us i.e. if we donate less, as we are doing at the moment, schools close, drinking water becomes dirty, people start starving. Surely it's more effective for countries to be able to stand on their own two feet?
 
Megahurtz400 said:
Absolutely everyone lives in big 4-5 bedroom houses, when i went on the german exchange with school in 2005, i had my own double bedroom and my own bathroom with massive jacuzzi style bathtub and shower!
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maybe because there mortgage system is different to ours. There debts pass onto there kids basically.
 
Dolph said:
In practice though, it means more money lost through the failings of government and centralised management of finances.
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It also means money and wealth lost as high taxpayers move overseas or use elaborate tax planning.

That being said, I'm a tax adviser, so that point is kinda win win.
 
scorza said:
Are charities doing an effective job in Africa? As far as I can see they've just created countries that are massively dependant on Western charities and the donations that come from us i.e. if we donate less, as we are doing at the moment, schools close, drinking water becomes dirty, people start starving. Surely it's more effective for countries to be able to stand on their own two feet?
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How can they, when we pretty much exclude them from world trade, or exploit them as a resource to be wrung out?
 
There's no guarentee where your taxes will go.

Personally I don't like paying taxes with the implicit knowledge it'll go to some chav scum beggar who doesn't deserve it (replace with your favourite Daily Mail figure of hate).

If the system wasn't broken or so opaque to outside monitoring, and only the deserving were given money (instead of buying votes) then I would probably be much happier paying taxes.

The principle of government provision is a sound one, simply because of the economies of scale. The problem comes from the people administering it... Politicians only thinking 4 years down the road.
 
Dolph said:
In practice though, it means more money lost through the failings of government and centralised management of finances.
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fund raising and admin take a massive chunk of charity donations im pretty sure i read an article that explained the costs and more than 50% doesnt even go to the causes the charities try to help
 
arknor said:
fund raising and admin take a massive chunk of charity donations im pretty sure i read an article that explained the costs and more than 50% doesnt even go to the causes the charities try to help
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That is still significantly more efficient than the state...
 
scorza said:
Are charities doing an effective job in Africa? As far as I can see they've just created countries that are massively dependant on Western charities and the donations that come from us i.e. if we donate less, as we are doing at the moment, schools close, drinking water becomes dirty, people start starving. Surely it's more effective for countries to be able to stand on their own two feet?
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Doesn't that same argument apply to the benefits system in the UK? It would be much more effective to make people stand on their own two feet rather than give them handouts to counter act the negative effect of their choices/behaviour?
 
scorza said:
Are charities doing an effective job in Africa? As far as I can see they've just created countries that are massively dependant on Western charities and the donations that come from us i.e. if we donate less, as we are doing at the moment, schools close, drinking water becomes dirty, people start starving. Surely it's more effective for countries to be able to stand on their own two feet?
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Plenty of people make exactly the same argument about the welfare state.
 
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