The great EU debate

The European Economic Area (EEA) was established on 1 January 1994 following an agreement between the member states of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and the European Community, later the European Union (EU). Specifically, it allows Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway to participate in the EU's Internal Market without a conventional EU membership.
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Source Wiki. I just took it to show that you can have free trade with Europe and not be in the Union.
 
OldCoals said:
The trade argument is nonsense.

Look at all the companies that sell into the UK that are not part of the EU, Apple, Intel, HTC, Samsung and LG etc etc.

I know they are all technology companies but I am sure you agree with my example.
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I think the trade argument they are making might be about selling out not selling in.
 
Biohazard said:
Which would make you question the efficiency of the process.
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That the EU is less than optimal in terms of organisation and results isn't something I'm going to be disagreeing about, in fact I think most EU politicians would admit that it could be better if they were being honest - insert your own jokes about honesty and politicians here if it pleases you.

I would however disagree about it being inherently worthless if that is the implication, the idea is pretty good although the implementation is almost certainly somewhat flawed.

Biohazard said:
Which makes them unaccountable and instable, and uncertain, in the understanding of their legal processes and functions.

The system is quite incompatible with our own.
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Incompatible is a stretch, we quite happily incorporate most of the EU directives with minimal effort and of course EU regulations are automatically binding and able to be relied upon by citizens.

EU law has been an example of naked judicial creativity par excellence since its founding and in some ways it is somewhat worrying but from a dispassionate point of view I can't help but doff my cap to the vision and sheer chutzpah that has led to a number of the most important decisions in EU law. While for the sake of consistency I might prefer that previous decisions were binding upon the court I also appreciate the reasons why this is not the case.

Strife212 said:
Source Wiki. I just took it to show that you can have free trade with Europe and not be in the Union.
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You can have free trade with Europe without being in the Union but it may be worth noting that none of those countries were in the Union and chose to withdraw - if we were to withdraw then potentially we'd have to renegotiate trading arrangements with the EU and there's no guarantee that the result would be as favourable as it is currently. While I can't see the EU blocking it completely I can imagine that they may choose to make it difficult for a period as a form of 'punishment' for having the temerity to leave.
 
semi-pro waster said:
You can have free trade with Europe without being in the Union but it may be worth noting that none of those countries were in the Union and chose to withdraw - if we were to withdraw then potentially we'd have to renegotiate trading arrangements with the EU and there's no guarantee that the result would be as favourable as it is currently. While I can't see the EU blocking it completely I can imagine that they may choose to make it difficult as a form of 'punishment' for having the temerity to leave.
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Capitalism and materialism are very powerful factors.
 
OldCoals said:
Capitalism and materialism are very powerful factors.
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That's true and they are however there may be political capital to be gained from a strong showing against anyone who chose to leave the EU and in the short term that may override business concerns. Ultimately I suspect that free trade would again be likely but it's not certain.
 
semi-pro waster said:
That's true and they are however there may be political capital to be gained from a strong showing against anyone who chose to leave the EU and in the short term that may override business concerns. Ultimately I suspect that free trade would again be likely but it's not certain.
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As you have just alluded to, fear is also a very powerful factor.
 
semi-pro waster said:
That the EU is less than optimal in terms of organisation and results isn't something I'm going to be disagreeing about, in fact I think most EU politicians would admit that it could be better if they were being honest - insert your own jokes about honesty and politicians here if it pleases you.

I would however disagree about it being inherently worthless if that is the implication, the idea is pretty good although the implementation is almost certainly somewhat flawed.
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Not inherrently worthless but that the implimentation detracts from the possible benefits.

Encouraging the growth of a poorly implimented instrument is never wise, I fail to see required reform therefore I would rather not be a part of it.



semi-pro waster said:
Incompatible is a stretch, we quite happily incorporate most of the EU directives with minimal effort and of course EU regulations are automatically binding and able to be relied upon by citizens.
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I don't think it is, we work on precident. The european judiciary can pretty much do as they please. It does not marry together well, especially when they interfere with one another.

Happily? I would suggest not.

semi-pro waster said:
EU law has been an example of naked judicial creativity par excellence since its founding and in some ways it is somewhat worrying but from a dispassionate point of view I can't help but doff my cap to the vision and sheer chutzpah that has led to a number of the most important decisions in EU law. While for the sake of consistency I might prefer that previous decisions were binding upon the court I also appreciate the reasons why this is not the case.
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Which reasons, and in what context?



semi-pro waster said:
You can have free trade with Europe without being in the Union but it may be worth noting that none of those countries were in the Union and chose to withdraw - if we were to withdraw then potentially we'd have to renegotiate trading arrangements with the EU and there's no guarantee that the result would be as favourable as it is currently. While I can't see the EU blocking it completely I can imagine that they may choose to make it difficult for a period as a form of 'punishment' for having the temerity to leave.
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I doubt it in the current circumstances. Neither are implied threats of punative action for acting on democracy a rather positive case for remaining in the EU state.
 
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