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The Irish Question.

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Orionaut, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Orionaut


    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,388

    I know this has been raised by Brexit, and there is a dedicated brexit thread.

    But I think this is an issue in its own right regardless of Brexit. And certainly one more deserving of SC than GD

    All Brexit has done is remind us all that this issue has been an unresolved problem for last 100 years. (Pretty much to the year)

    Blairs "Good Friday Agreement" simply swept it under the carpet so people could collectively kid themselves that the problems were resolved.

    Brexit didn't create new problems, it simply reminded us that we had never really resolved the old ones.

    So, How would OCUK answer the Irish Question?
  2. ron3003

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 25, 2006

    Posts: 1,397

    Location: Skegness

    2 - one to hold the fitting and the other to screw the bulb in ;)
  3. SPG


    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,119

    Oh you mean the crap hole council estates where every opportunity to get out has been pretty much removed so they end up being a breeding ground drugs, the control of them drugs all swept up in a nice paramilitary veil for extra menace with some old fashioned prejudices for extra measure.

    The good Friday agreement allowed past crimes to be forgotten and has a allowed a generation to be brought up without the fear of a bombing whilst they went out for a KFC. You can argue all you want about it, something had to be done and things needed to be forgiven/forgotten and if brushing them under the carpet worked and it has worked then the carpet can always have some tape on the sides to stop it peeling up.

    In time its just a crappy old carpet that no one cares about.

    Belfast now is a awesome city with awesome people and way better than going to London for a day trip.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  4. nkata


    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,846

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    Personally, treat the scumbags as the criminals that they are and do not let them think of themselves as political figures. It only takes a few to stir up the mob; particularly in this day of connectedness. The mob today does not remember at first hand the daily carnage on the streets. So yes, past crimes have largely been forgiven, a line has been drawn. Now the police should act impartially to crack down on those still trying to create mayhem with a gun or worse.

    Northern Ireland has become stable, it is a beautiful country to visit or work in, so put a hard stop to the few who would ruin it or try to reopen old scores. Religious differences and discrimination have been overcome to be replaced by a wish for control, organised crime and other criminality by the few.
  5. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,075

    No the answer is three. One to hold the fitting one to hold the bulb and another to stand near the light switch turning it on and off again everytime the bulb holder gets close to putting it in. Oh how we laughed.
  6. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,161

    What I find more concerning though not unsurprising is how younger generations are ignorant and dismissive of a lot of the issues and think any outstanding issues that might inconvenience them (the younger generations) are simply just people being awkward and/or can be resolved simply i.e. "give NI back to Ireland".

    It is far from a perfect situation but largely both sides of the border have found ways to move on, involving a lot of sacrifice on both sides (and that does mean some people who by rights should have been brought to justice have got away with it) and I don't think that should lightly be forgotten.
  7. Evangelion


    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,435

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Rescind all British claims to Northern Ireland, and let Éire take it back again. Job done, huge amount of money saved, and no more Irish border nonsense to deal with.
  8. Lord-Jaffa


    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

    Posts: 5,207

    Location: UK

    Should give the whole of Aus back to the aborigines then while we are at it? Or the Falklands back to Argentinia, or Gibraltar to Spain? I mean who cares what the people who live there think as long as you say it should be done right?

    As far as I'm aware, due to the Northern Ireland Act 1998 they already have the power to hold a referendum to be a United Ireland if they wish.
  9. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,161

    Sadly that won't actually even solve anything as there are many divisions along religious, patriotic, political and so on lines and even those with similar desires on different sides of the border or on the same side don't generally see eye to eye.
  10. Evangelion


    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,435

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    You're comparing apples and oranges.

    That's nice, but it'll be quicker if we simply take care of everything with a simple act of Parliament.

    That'll be for Éire to sort out.
  11. Schlong&Stable


    Joined: Apr 27, 2013

    Posts: 3,932

    Annex the Republic of Ireland. The existence of an independent Irish state is an absurdity that should never have been allowed.
  12. Thekwango


    Joined: Feb 5, 2009

    Posts: 10,201

    Location: Northern Ireland

    it most certainly is not an awesome city. it's still at it's core a horrible toxic sectarian ****-hole. very quick and easy example......take a walk up Sandy Row and tell the locals your name is Padraig and see how you fair. yea, you're much less likely to be blown up or shot today (but even at the height of the troubles the likelihood of that was relatively slim) but it doesn't mean it is any less of a sectarian dump (like much of NI to be fair)

    sadly, that's far from the truth. it is improving but it'll be several generations before it's totally overcome.
  13. thenewoc


    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 3,979

    Location: West Sussex, England

    I've said it before and i'll say it again.

    NI need to accept that whilst they are part of the UK they are unique in terms of being on a separate island to the mainland and therefore need to accept the solution is going to be different for them than it is for the rest of the UK.

    There's really only two options as I see it for NI;

    1. border in Irish sea

    2. hard NI border

    Providing post brexit RoI and NI can agree a reciprocal agreement to allow goods, services and people to move freely then option 1 applies, if not option 2 applies.

    Perhaps a third option is also possible if both parties can agree on a soft border where only commercial traffic is routed across specific points on the border but this would still require option 1 to be applied to prevent NI being used as a migration gateway from the EU.
  14. SPG


    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,119

    Well its very welcoming for the hockey away games :) and that was 1000% improvement than the last times I was their walking the streets with a SLR, granted that was also much worse when i went with my mum to my Gran when i was little.

    Its got to start somewhere and its getting better it might be 2 back 1 forward at times, but it is and has to get better.

    As for giving it back, I do not think EIRE want it back, they couldn't afford it for starters :) and it would be another powerhouse to compete against Dublin.
  15. dowie


    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,316

    I think it is already solved by the GFA... if the people of NI want to unite with Ireland then they can do so via a referendum.

    Eire has only existed for less than a century, there hasn't been an independent state governing the whole Island.

    Still you're a white guy living in Australia right? What is your opinion re: the Aboriginals and claims re: land being stolen?

    I mean English and Scottish people have been settled in Ireland for far longer than say British and Irish people have been settled in Australia.
  16. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 15,661

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    If there was an easy answer, there wouldn't be a question any more. I don't have an answer to at least 2000 years of conflict (there are Roman references to it) with >1000 years of a horribly toxic mess of slavery(*), religion, politics, neglect, atrocities and revenge seasoned with raids, invasions, a couple of wars and a partial conquest.

    I think that the Good Friday Agreement was probably the least bad answer. For such a deeply engrained problem, sweeping it under the carpet and pretending it's resolved is a viable way towards it actually being resolved. Given enough time, the problem could decay away. Probably not for several generations, but it's a way of making progress. Brexit didn't create new problems, but it's worse than simply reminding us that we never really resolved the old ones because it threatens the resolution of the old ones. It's like cutting the stiches on a wound much too early, when the wound has only started to heal.

    * Irish slavers preyed on Britain in the early medieval period, so I'm talking about unequivocal slavery here rather than indentured servitude.
  17. jsmoke


    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 6,891

    Really complicated one. Goes to the heart of church vs state. Was never sure what to make of it. Was Ian Paisley the good guy or a devil in disguise or just ignorant.

    Some argue that their church doctrine has never really removed itself from Catholic teachings afterall nearly all churches originated from the RCC at one point changing doctrine here and there and keeping bits here and there. It must be like looking in the mirror to some degree.

    I don't have any answers. There's no smoke without fire I will say that.