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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

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  1. Rroff

    Man of Honour

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    Not quite sure how that changes anything plus a good bit is down to Momentum and some other similar minded individuals/entities that back Corbyn - and some of what has gone on with them to promote theirs ends is quite dubious at best.

    This is part of the problem IMO people are voting too much based on short term measures - wanting good public services is all well and good but needs to also come with a good and workable approach to balancing the health of the country as a whole or in the long run it won't be sustainable to maintain a good level of public services.

    Which plays into another point I was going to make - if you break down any of Jeremy Corbyn's speeches there is a whole lot of talk about these issues to appeal to people downtrodden by Tory party policies and a lot about reversing or blocking many measures put into play by the Tories which have had an impact on people such as tax credit cuts, etc. but those measures weren't put into place purely due to Tory ideology alone and simply reversing them often isn't sustainable without also dealing with the reasons why they were floated in the first place - something along with any other detail on real solutions that is completely missing from his speeches. Obviously there is a limit how far you can go into something like that in a speech and a certain amount comes back to the Labour manifesto but it should be something people are thinking about in more depth rather than simply swung by the fact there is some talk about addressing these problems - which ultimately is just cheap talk but people are easily pulled in by it because it is what they want to hear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  2. Tony Edwards

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    The Tory approach of cut and slash is what is short term and is their ideology. These cuts would have come even without the need for "austerity". Public services are being run down on purpose. The country is not a business nor are its finances run like a credit card.
     
  3. Rroff

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    Posts: 65,291

    Which is exactly the kind of thing I'm warning about. But don't write it all off as purely Tory ideology - there are real problems there that need to be solved - in the case of the Tories they've often employed the kind of tactics of a software developer who removes a whole feature rather than spend time trying to fix a bug in it especially when it comes to anything that involves the lower classes.
     
  4. Dolph

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  5. Tony Edwards

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    Do you really think this is news? Its been covered many times already. Oh yeah I get what you are doing.................

    For consistency you should also be posting in the Tory thread about their mishandling of brexit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  6. Meridian

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    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

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    Location: Vvardenfell

    He neuterered all his serious critics a year or two back during the feeble attempts to remove him (Rees-Mogg learned everything he knows about coups from that). He is now almost entirely surrounded by other idealogues, with a sprinkling of people still putting ambition ahead of principle (it's the politiciaisn's motto). Even if he is told that making his Brexit support clear will move many Labour voters away, he simply won't believe it: he only ever sees people who agree with him these, so thinks that Labour Supporters are also in agreement. Because the ones who are not are ignored. I'm sure words like "recidivist" are used.

    Not to mention the fact we are talking about Jeremy Corbyn here: a man who would walk off the edge of a cliff if his principles drifted in that direction. But who fails to care that politics is (to quote on of its masters): "the art of the possible". Principle is great in opposition, and really great in oppostion to your own party, but a liability in power, or for achieving it.
     
  7. Tony Edwards

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    If you think that then you either havent been reading the papers or seen any other media sources.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

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    Oh dear the right are not going to like this plan.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/24/labour-government-tackle-climate-change
     
  9. doodah

    Capodecina

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    Location: London

    But what about the 'greenest' government ever?
     
  10. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,216

    Despise away. I vote depending on the circumstances at the time, the manifesto, sometimes the local candidate and sometimes the leader. It isn't contradictory, it is about not being wedded to ideology and blind tribalism.
     
  11. Rroff

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    Posts: 65,291

    This (my) post isn't about something unique to Labour but it would be interesting to know the how and what they will do that is really different and innovative - the problem with simply scaling up renewables as mentioned further down the article is that in this country peak generation is out of step with peak demand what we need is some serious advances in storage technology and possibly some advances in a range of innovative localised generation from mixed renewable sources.

    A factory in Salford producing parts doesn't really work unfortunately as it is cheaper and more effective to have them made abroad - Labour might try and force it, even subsidise it but chances are in the long run it will fall apart as a scheme when tax payers realise where the money is coming from.
     
  12. Meridian

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    Location: Vvardenfell


    I see some mind criticism from people who look afraid of their own shadows. I do NOT see any sign of even slight willingness to stand up to him. He is fully is fully in control of the party until he loses the next election. Even then he will probably manage to hand the succession onto another safe (i.e. Left) pair of hands. I'm old enough to remember this from last time they got kicked out of power.
     
  13. Dolph

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    Location: Plymouth

    Labour faces ‘mass challenge’ over Brexit policy

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hallenge-over-brexit-policy-second-referendum

    Kind of puts pay to the idea that Labour need to maintain a pro brexit stance or see their vote smashed...
     
  14. Tony Edwards

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  15. Dolph

    Man of Honour

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    Heres one example...

    Brexit Discussion
     
  16. Tony Edwards

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    Nope. Still not seeing anyone saying that "Labour need to maintain a "pro brexit" stance". Do I need to read between the lines or something?
     
  17. Gigabit

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    If Corbyn doesn't come out for a second referendum post the VONC failing, then he must go.
     
  18. SPG

    Soldato

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    Posts: 5,751

    Labour are about as an effective majority opposition as myself. I.e useless.

    Momentum are scary as hell and we desperately need Labour to split along with the lib dems calling it a day.
     
  19. Rroff

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    The Lib Dems haven't called it a day? you'd be forgiven for imaging they had the amount of presence (lack of) lately.
     
  20. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

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    When has an opposition done anything functionally useful? Can someone actually tell me what a minority opposition is meant to do when we have two parties so "party above all"... It's useless because it always has been. (The Blair years were about as relevant as it ever got because it was Red Tory vs Pork Tory)

    Having a different leader is not going to suddenly solve anything for anyone, the government will still have terrible ministers and terrible policies backed by people who'll never ******* change their vote regardless.

    Governing fundamentally needs to change, not the leader of the "opposition".
     
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