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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,884

    Location: La France

    Shoot Corbyn and put Blair back in charge? I remember him being rather popular with the centrists.
     
  2. Semple

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 5, 2010

    Posts: 5,528

    I personally feel that someone should call him out and tell him to put his leadership on the table if he feels he can do better. If it goes to a general election and labour lose again, then he needs to resign from politics, at that point he would have lost 2 GE's and it would be evident the public favour a failing government over him. You can't continue to lead a major party with those failures stacked up behind you.
     
  3. jimjamuk

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 30, 2007

    Posts: 2,792

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Stick David Milliband in charge..... whether the old school party faithful like him or not I expect the public would
     
  4. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,967

    Location: Plymouth

    The problem is the labour party member selectorate (and the Tory party member selectorate) has very different views from the wider electorate at large, so a candidate who is the preference of the membership (especially with millibands bodged reforms in the case of Labour) currently isn't the same as who would be popular with the wider electorate, or even with the parliamentary party. The tory rules at least ensure that the candidates the members vote on are the preferred choice of the mps.

    So being able to command a majority of party members is not the same thing as being what the wider electorate want and are willing to actively support. In the case of corbyn, he generates active opposition in the electorate as well as active support, which is not what you need to get into government.
     
  5. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 3,077

    The challenge is it has to be some one who would win a leadership contest. This would be a tough challenge as Corbyn’s wing of labour repeatedly beat the well funded , experienced, connected, three election winning new labour political machine by a significant margin.
     
  6. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,478

    We need a seed change in politics, a good left swing will see the country falter for 8-10 years then we will get a moderate cycle for another 4-8 then another buisness over anything else. This is good as the stock market should be riding high just in time for me to retire.

    In all honesty putting people like Abbott in power is like putting butter over live electrical cables and waiting for the cat to die.
     
  7. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,312

    Location: On the road....

    I think the polls reflect your analogy of the public preference to a failing government to a Corbyn one perfectly.

    I don't know how people can't see him for the snake that he is, with regard to Brexit he has deliberately opposed Brexit at every turn and made it as hard as possible for us to get a good deal with the long term aim of forcing an election rather than actually trying to get a good deal for the country.

    I think the country see - for all her faults on Brexit - May doing the opposite and trying to get a workable deal that keeps everyone happy even though it’s frankly an impossible task.

    It’s a great shame Corbyn didn’t have the decency to resign after losing the last election, I find it staggering that because he did better than expected - but still lost - he’s back in favour amongst the parliamentary party - the majority of whom previously expressed no confidence in him - I think the electorate see this also, I can’t see how on earth Labour are going to get anywhere electorally with him and his friends at the helm and the polls show it.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,110

    Yet it was about as close as the brexit result and nearly every one is calling for a second ref. Go figure.
     
  9. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,312

    Location: On the road....

    Yes it was close but he didn’t win, just as the remain camp didn’t win yet a minority of people in that camp want to hold another vote because they didn’t like the results last time, cue Labour wanting an election now - when the country wants us to get Brexit sorted.

    I voted remain but understand that my side lost and I’m happy to go with the result, it’s part of being democratic, I certainly don’t want a second referendum and I don’t know anyone who voted the same as I who does.

    Cue Labour lose the confidence vote, press for a second referendum and watch the Labour areas who voted leave desert them in droves when the next election comes.

    Corbyn is a political turkey who’s hell bent on voting for Christmas.
     
  10. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,471

    Location: London

    Perhaps the widest open goal offered to Corbyn today and yet I still feel it will only end one way :p.
     
  11. jimjamuk

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 30, 2007

    Posts: 2,792

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Agree which is why they are going to struggle getting those poll results up any time soon
     
  12. Steedie

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 19,595

    Location: Oxfordshire

    I love this post.

    Corbyn is by far the biggest moron in politics. The sooner he buggers off and someone with an ounce of intelligence takes over, the better.

    I’m a Tory voter but with the state of the party at the moment, I want nothing more than a real alternative in politics to ensure they have to get their act together. A Labour Party with that idiot in charge is most definitely, not that
     
  13. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,471

    Location: London

    A submarine made out of cheese and now a political turkey hell bent on voting for Christmas :D!!

    SC has been delivering some great soundbites. May just delivered another slap in the face to him by not inviting him to the cross-party talks!
     
  14. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,967

    Location: Plymouth

    There's no point in inviting someone who is on record as opposing any government deal irrespective of contents...
     
  15. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,714

    This is because he is left wing.

    There is citizens in this country who wouldnt vote left wing even if it was the only option on the poll paper.

    Evidenced in the earlier reply to my post which claims his policies would bankrupt the country, there is people who legit think that you cant invest and raise taxes, and so will never vote for it regardless of who the person is.

    Its very telling that the only time labour has been in government in the past 4 decades is under a non left wing leader, and as soon as he stood down they lost power.

    Also as I said they lost their safe scotland seats.

    The election he lost was expected to be an increased tory majority, he captured various young voters which are the future of this country.

    He has certainly been a better opposition than the likes of miliband who were too central and just rubber stamping tory policies. I am clearly not alone in my views, there is a reason he got voted in by labour party members.

    I am guessing our defenition of a good opposition is simply judging them on their popularity with right/centre voters, if they can get elected and if they are even a tory lite party like blair was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  16. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,714

    But then he wouldnt be worth voting for, he would change labour into tory lite.
     
  17. chrcoluk

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 27, 2015

    Posts: 3,714

    I think your issue is he isnt patting may on the back, and that you dont like his policies which are further to the left than any major party has had for decades.

    Why should he back something he doesnt agree with in principle and goes against his policies? please explain that.
     
  18. Steedie

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 19,595

    Location: Oxfordshire

    I’d agree with you about not backing it if he came out and gave some indication as to what it is he would back and his views. But he won’t because he knows he wouldn’t be too popular and blow his extremely slim chance of getting in to power
     
  19. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 63,817

    The reasons Corbyn won't be good for the country is little to do with investment and raising taxes or even a Keynesian approach as per the Labour manifesto - many of these things, in a pragmatic manner are needed to bring some balance back to the country but that won't happen under Corbyn - but even if they did those aren't the only reasons why having Corbyn in any position to influence policy and how the government acts is a bad idea.

    I mean even TM played him into a corner FFS with some of the easiest political gaming ever - granted to his credit he found his balls for once instead of sulking but still.
     
  20. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,312

    Location: On the road....

    Agree to an extent, Corbyn did well - especially amongst younger voters - by promising the earth but the older voters who with the greatest respect to the younger imo saw through him hence he didn’t get over the line.

    Ageee entirely that investment and tax raising is possible, but, to think we can afford renationalisation of Rail / Gas / Water etc is laughable and conveniently forgetting how dire for example British Rail was before privatisation...

    I agree he’s been marginally better than Miliband but that’s hardly a high benchmark tbh

    Blair was the best “Conservative” PM of recent years quite frankly and there lies the problem, Labour can get elected if the hard left is put in a box and Blair did that very well, but, once the hard left are steering the ship the country runs scared of their past record and power isn’t in their grasp, I think Milibands rule tinkering which allowed Corbyn to win - and effectively undone Blair’s reforms - is going to hobble Labour in years to come, once Corbyn is ousted there’s no mechanism in place to prevent another of his ilk rising to the top against the wishes of the parliamentary party so the shenanigans of last year with confidence votes and resignations in the Labour ranks would repeat itself.


    There’s a meme going around social media a lot that makes me smile because it’s so true of Corbyn, the “Post Turtle”, it’s been used politically in the U.S. to describe many from George W Bush to Eric Cantor but it fits Corbyn and his rise beautifully.

    :D