Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.
Until Corbyn is gone Labour is pretty much screwed.
Wry as it might be Corbyn didn't get there on his own and he isn't up there without support and that is something people are overlooking - there is an element within Labour with rising influence who are far removed from any pragmatic perspective on the country and won't achieve a good long term balance or anything close that can make the country better in a sustainable way.
Exactly and that’s why it’s so apt (you seem - correct me if I’m wrong - to think it isn’t?)
That element you refer to is Momentum.
Although it fits in many respects I don't think he is quite in the position of not getting anything done while he is up there - he might not be able to do it on his own but he isn't there completely helpless - those that hoisted him up still maintain a relationship with him albeit for their own ends but his are in many ways aligned.
On another note, though not unwelcome to my eyes, I have to say I'm surprised to see how many diehard Labour supporters on my Facebook feed are sticking the knives into Corbyn today with many calling him useless or anti-British traitor who've formerly been promoting him and now calling for someone else to lead the party. I guess they are pro-leave Labour supporters which is kind of ironic.
Depends if you call ruination a coherent policy. I suppose you could.
I don't read the DM so I wouldn't know. I know that the so called costed manifesto is a slick exercise in smoke and mirrors and anything connected with Momentum is never going to end well for the silent majority of the British people. If you are of the persuasion that the country owes you a living even if you've contributed nowt then Labour is your vehicle of choice.
Labour is finished as a party of democracy. Momentum and other left wing elements has stitched the rule book up so tightly that only someone of their choosing now has a chance of winning.
That be so in your view but the comment was a reply to how does Labour get to the point they should be at in the polls which should be a country mile ahead of the Tories at the moment.
Corbyn does have the support of a large portion of the Labour membership so it isnt going to happen but in my opinion he is the one holding the Labour party back from wiping out the Tories if a GE were to come along. Current thinking is it would remain a hung parliament if one did come along now
That is because brexit is a terrible outcome for the country and its people. Just as the Tories who gave us brexit are.
Its plainly simple. The Tories are the most likely party to bring brexit not only because of party politics and the amount of support brexit has, but also its supporters. If we are to go on just poll numbers. The Tories were 25 points ahead in 2017 yet that dropped to just about evens come election.
Id have thought that if it wasnt for brexit Corbyn would win by a mile. In fact if it wasnt for Cameron offering a referendum I think Miliband would have won in 2015.
I agree with most of this although i think if Brexit didnt exist Corbyn would be marginally in the lead but if you follow the narrative - this is the worst Tory government ever according to some so he should be walking it. If Corbyn changed his stance today on Brexit he would probably jump to >20 points ahead overnight
He wouldn't, at least not according to the research, because most of the pliable remain vote is already going to labour.
Corbyn supporting or facilitating brexit, on the other hand, would decimate the labour vote.
Well if May calls an election and Labour campaign for a second ref, as would probably be party policy by then, then yes we might get there but until brexit is done and dusted (either way) the Tories will get a lot of support from brexiters.
Id prefer the Tories sort out brexit (either way) once and for all though as it is purely their mess, so then the country can move on and get a better government come 2022 as I really cant see the Tories offering an election before then.
Its down to the party to decide what the manifesto policy is, not Corbyn so your theory is nothing.
Come on - we all know the/a manifesto is a glorified sales brochure and people in a position like Corbyn have significant influence over the actual direction taken when a party is in power.
Maybe not you but many others keep saying that there is wider support for a second ref within Labour even within Momentum (who every one claims is the muscle behind Corbyn) yet you think Corbyn will ignore them and push his own hand written manifesto? Seriously the contortions some of you will go to just to try to discredit labour is truly unbelievable.
If Corbyn pushes the point for brexit in any future election I will personally drop any support for him as leader. Ill still vote Labour though as the alternative is too depressing.
While you use contortion to avoid the cut of my thrust... who said anything about a hand written manifesto? something you've injected there to try and deflect from the main point.
The party machine will not allow Corbyn to force his own manifesto. Come on?
Since when has any Prime Minister published their own declaration of intent separate to their party manifesto?
Separate names with a comma.