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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 19,814

    Interesting, maybe he has a lack of empathy for some reason or another and simply thinks logically, regardless his choices led to his survival... surely the only important trait one needs. Does seem rather nasty all these years on, but you can’t really judge a boy for choices that were perhaps out of their control, perhaps for lack of understanding. Not to downplay my opinion on the matter of nazi collaborators, but if I were at risk of being inprisoned and murdered (not that many knew the outcome anyway)... I don’t think I’d willingly fall on that sword just to appear honourable. But again he was a kid, so it’s mildly irrelevant anyway.

    Also it’s not uncontrolled in the EU bar perhaps the migration crisis, which has myriad reasons (not the thread for it, would take forever to explain for this minor point) for its coming to the fore, we have plenty of control and choose not to use it, that isn’t therefore ‘uncontrolled’. The same blairite/lying Tory governments continue not to use measures written into he agreements to control the flow of migration from particularly the new members.

    On the point of the African thing, you brought it up, and it may be up to me to waste some time looking into it, but I fear I’ll end up in some loopy conspiracy site paid for by the kochs. Does not seem worth arguing over something that hasn’t actually been discussed seriously enough to be plastered over the media as usually they are.

    Though I will raise the counter point that if we don’t, China will and then all those lovely resources will be stricken from our economy.

    I will concede on this blundering discussion of soros though, his thoughts are his, his actions are subjectively taken and this roundabout discussion is kinda pointless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  2. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,005

    Location: Kiel, Germany

  3. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,765


    The same snopes that references everything I stated in my post about what he said in that interview ?

    The same snopes that cites Soros' biographer Michael T. Kaufman in rebuttal to Soros' 'problematic' comments in the autobiography , released after the documentary in 2002, entitled Soros: the life and times of a messianic billionaire.. ... Does that sound like someone who would provide an objective stab at a biography or someone who might just have written a puff piece that would paint a rather flattering picture of its subject?

    I suggest reffering to him as a 'messiah' in the title might just be a hint?..

    And the same snopes that contradicts itself ...

    So he did collaborate with the Nazi's then even if only as a 'Spectator' ? (to be clear in the circumstances I have no issues with his actions *at the time* but his indifference decades later to the suffering of others runs contrary to the implication that he's a nice guy with good intentions who would be well placed to use his experience to help others unselflessly.)

    I'm assuming you actually have a point?

    Or did you think that you could lazily make an implication about my posts and rely on people not doing their own checks on the source when you try and suggest I'm a nazi for posting exactly what your source does?

    Yes some loons have things to say about most prominent people but that doesn't mean that all criticism of said persons is loony.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  4. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,273

    The most important thing to remember about the right is that they project. It's straight out of the Nazi playbook as written by Goebbels: accuse your enemy of doing the things that you are doing, because it weakens their criticism if they try to return fire. That's why the institutionally racist and Islamophobic Tories are attacking Corbyn with anti-Semitism, it's why the senior Brexiteers call Remainers "traitors undermining democracy" while their bank accounts are stuffed with Putin's roubles. And it's why they try to paint Soros as a Nazi when he spends money to try and oppose fascist-supported projects.
     
  5. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    People complain about corbyn's antisemitism because he is antisemitic, and surrounds himself with antisemities.

    For anyone who isn't delusionally biased and totally irrational, this is pretty clear.
     
  6. Pudney

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2005

    Posts: 5,273

    Location: Essex

    I'd disagree that Corbyn is anti-semitic. He has very poor judgement though.
     
  7. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    I don't believe Corbyn is necessary intentially antisemitic, in that he actively makes decisions against the Jewish community.

    However, the outcome of his actions are still antisemitic, even if that is not his intent, because he so actively discriminates in favour of other communities, his actions clearly discriminate against the Jewish community.

    Racism doesn't require explicit intent to be racism.
     
  8. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,400

    Just waiting for anti Tory to be a crime.

    Any Labour goverment would be better than Mrs incompetent and the school chums pull stringers.
     
  9. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    That sort of Authoritarian thinking is generally implemented by the left, not the right. Or at least, the left has the much higher body count.
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,834

    Pray tell what are the decisions he activly makes against the Jewish community? When you say actively discriminates in favour of other communities do you mean muslims by any chance?
    Thats an interesting turn of phrase that you dont seem to hold the Tories or those on the right to the same standard too. Interesting.
    Yes exactly like how the Tories are acting right now and thats with out a majority. Imagine how much worse it would be now if they had managed to secure that majority.

    edit: Silly me. You would want the Tories to be more authoritarian to the poor and Ill assume muslims and other minorities except jews of course.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  11. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    Palestinians, which are a subset of Muslims. Corbyn rapidly loses all perspective at that point.


    On the contrary, I expect neutrality and equal treatment, which is not the same as expecting equal outcome when you have different starting points.


    The Tories have banned alternative thinking? I don't recall it being may that has a social media lynch mob backing her up?
     
  12. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,834

    My question was what decisions does he actively make against the jewish communty. We have already established that you will put Jewish people above muslims in the case of Corbyn but what decisions does he actively make against the jewish communty?
     
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    Rejecting the right he gives to all other groups to define racism against them?
     
  14. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,834

    That makes no sense. The question was.
     
  15. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    The action that underlined my earlier point was refusing to accept the ihra definition of antisemtism until forced to. We can add on praising murderers and terrorists, hosting antisemites from all over the world and actively working against all attempts to address the problem of institutional antisemitism in the labour party of you wish.

    Or do you think corbyn's office staff acted against his wishes when they were actively interfering in cases? If so, would you like to buy some magic beans?
     
  16. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,834

    No the action that underlined your earlier point was palastine not the IHRA definition.

    You seem to be lumping all Jewish people with Israel but I thought that was antisemitic? I think you may need to brush up on the IHRA and stop lumping all Jewish people with Israel some Jews may be upset by being linked to Israel.
     
  17. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,821

    Location: Plymouth

    Oh dear, you really will do anything to defend anything the dear leader does, won't you?

    The adoption of the ihra was one of the requests of the jewish community. You appear to suggest that by supporting them I am being antisemitic, while you work to yet again defend corbyn...
     
  18. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

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    Im not defending anyone. You are just trying to wheel back from undermining the plight of the Palestinians.
     
  19. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,260

    Location: On the road....

    I don’t necessarily think Corbyn is an anti Semite, I do however think he’s an idiot with questionable at best judgment, the Labour Party were fools to put him in charge and their current polling in the face of “strong & stable” May proves it.
     
  20. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,340

    Absolutely not. My lifelong association with Labour is over until or unless they return to the centre ground of commonsense politics.