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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    100% agree with your post.
     
  2. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    I would point you to the comments made by
    Baroness Warsi on Wednesday's edition of Daily Politics Live. You may learn something to your advantage.
     
  3. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,421

    Ive seen the comments she has made in the papers this week and previous times about the Islamaphobia in the Tory party. I take it they are the same unless she has been convinced to reign her critisism in?
    And she also said this.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-warsi-foreign-fighters-british-a7659766.html
    Anti semitic anyone?

    So not being happy about them shooting unarmed people is ok I take it and also no being happy about them stealing land and demolishing peoples homes? After all I would complain if the UK or any other country did that also.

    @Faustus I take it you mean this.
    I think someone should start a thread " Political parties and their racism" where do we go from here. Even the new "Tinge" party are at it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  4. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,421

  5. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,128

    Be that as it may, "coloured" has meant "half-caste" for better than 40 years. It's not "suddenly" super-offensive.
     
  6. Gigabit

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2012

    Posts: 11,768

    Outrage that Labour would support an EEA style deal
     
  7. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    What? I have never ever heard of it meaning half-caste in my 6 decades on this planet.
     
  8. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 39,083

    Eh? When used in that context (which is the South African meaning) it generally isn't. That is literally the term used: blacks, whites and coloureds are all considered different racial groups in the "rainbow nation" unlike the US where say Barack Obama is considered to be black. It isn't an offensive word there or in that context.

    But in the UK (and US), AFAIK, coloured is simply an outdated word meaning the same as "person of colour" i.e. non-white and is considered to be offensive though not at the level of say the n word.
     
  9. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,427

    Good old Tony....engages full whataboutery mode when it comes to Labour

    And a common difference between an actual very common form or racism (anti semitism) and a not actually very common real case of racism ('islamophobia')

    Is the former tends not to pay so much attention to the actual religious practices and teachings of Judaism but rather to suggest the Jews, as a whole as an ethnic group, are a bunch of nefarious, double dealing agents , often with a secret agenda. (none of which can easily be derived at from looking at their scripture or religious practices)


    Where as in the later case a lot more of the criticism of Islam is directed straight against the teachings of the faith and the life and example set by its prophet.


    So simply put anti semitism more often correlates to hatred or what someone inherently, by their ethnic background, is (a jew) where as 'islamophobia' is more often a criticism of a set of beliefs which does correlate partially to but does not rely on the membership of its targets to certain ethnic groups almost totally unlike anti semitism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  10. Pudney

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2005

    Posts: 5,181

    Location: Essex

    I believe the offensiveness is due to its connection with segregation in the US where coloured was used on official signage.
     
  11. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,421

    Good old Caracus goes full whataboutery while belittling Islamaphobia by pretending it isnt mostly a cover for racism just like anti Israel is often a cover for racism/antisemitism.

    I welcome an independent investigation if it comes for Labour but I also think some sort of investigation of the Tories over not only their Islamaphobia problem, be it Johnson type comments or member comments but also their blind ignorance/arrogance to racial discimination and stoking racist intolerance with actions like the "Go home" vans and "hostile enviroment" policies needs investigating.

    To imply the Tory members that just got suspened from the Tories where not showing full on racism is as usual dishonest of you but not unexpected.
    Replace the word Jew with muslim and Judaism with Islam and you have just descibed Islamaphobia. Islamaphobia is racism!

    Once again I welcome an investigation if the EHCR decide to launch one. The problem is we know and accept that antisemitism follows Labour right now, be it left wingers being abusive about Jewish people and Isreal and from the right wing just being abusive to Jews. The difference is most of the left wingers wrongly think they are doing it for good reason where as the right wingers do it because they are nasty racist buggers. Just like the Islamaphobia of those of the right.
     
  12. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,511

    I don't know outside of London, but "coloured" always meant black when i was in school in the 80's and 90's. Never mixed race, we called mixed race "half-caste"

    Edit - Ah never mind, seems like several people said you're wrong already lol
     
  13. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,511

    The scale and reach of the issue of Islamaphobia in the tory party is nothing like the anti semitism in the Labour party. Also you have to give credit to the Tories for sorting the issue quickly as they got suspended immidiately as soon as the story broke. Where otherwise those in the Labour party the issue runs and runs without much if any action at all. It's why most of the Labour party MP's left to form a new group, the tory MP's just left because of brexit
     
  14. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,421

    Quickly you say? 2016 Zac Goldsmiths Islamaphobic mayoral campaign, still nothing done. There is nothing quick about the Tories suspending people after a site that had been running a year with people telling them about it after it was mentioned on LBC. That is not quick that is just damage control. The Islamaphobic problem in the Tories and the country at whole is way bigger than Labours anti semitism problem.
     
  15. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,421

    Remember what the term for disabled people was aswell, would you use that today? I love how people point to the times af fairly blatant racism and discrimination as the height of civility.
     
  16. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,511

    Diabled people were always called disabled, unless you're clumsily referring to Spastic? Which was an offical term for that particular illness, there was even a charity called The Spastic Secioty, wow you really are young arn't you? LOL!
     
  17. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    So not content with our home grown so called offensive language we're now importing it from the U.S. so people can claim to feel offended at every utterance.
     
  18. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    We have become obsessed and squeamish about how we refer to groups in society, pretty pathetic imo. I'm disabled and how I'm categorised has never exercised my thinking.

    To many precious folk circa 2019.
     
  19. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,327

    You appear to mirror Labour Party thinking perfectly i.e. anti-Semitism do nothing but Islamaphobia is bad.
     
  20. Pudney

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2005

    Posts: 5,181

    Location: Essex

    The price that's paid for close cultural ties between two nations. It doesn't really matter though, you don't get to choose what people are allowed to be offended by, if someone is offended by it then it's not up to you to tell them they can't be. What matters is whether you care if you offend people, which is a different question really.