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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    No, I tend to use facts or truth to give it another name. I find that quite often people don't like listening to facts or the hearing truth, especially if it doesn't chime with their narrative, but hey what the heck.
     
  2. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,578

    Heh, even many Sikhs and Hindus could be accused of "Islamaphobia". It's something we don't come across or hear about much, but they have "issues" too.

    Sikhs and Hindus don't get the same kind of attention because we don't see them going on stabbing sprees.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  3. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,965

    Look at this word salad.
     
  4. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,280

    learn to read then.
     
  5. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,965

    Go on then - parse that sentence. When you "lump" things, you take a number of individual things and put them into a single group. Nothing is being put into anything in that sentence. It reads like a Markov chain.
     
  6. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,324

  7. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,506

    ‘SNP supports free buses in next manifesto/budget’

    ‘SNP bad, free buses awful’ - Labour probably

    People don’t support them because they’ve trashed decades of goodwill with awful governance at the council level. On top of anti Blairite fever and them becoming tragic after the fact.

    The snp should just copy labours entire manifesto to see what happens.
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 8,324

    Scotland is not overwhelmed with good political partys at the moment. The SNP are in power because they are not the others and have done some good. Why would they copy failing policies of other parties.
     
  9. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,096



    The good news for Labour re Laura Murray just keeps rolling in. Nothing says Labour more then a champagne socialist from money who thinks she is removed from the 'bourgeois'



     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,506

    What’s wrong with a that?

    A rich person supporting a wealth tax, and legally avoiding some is hardly contradictory.

    Do you believe Bill Gates is a bad person for also agreeing with increased tax on himself?

    Had she literally evaded taxes in some manner and been found guilty, then assuredly it would be a conflict of interest.
     
  11. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,096

    She has on her Facebook 'no bourgeoisie' .....

    She is a ****ing member of the bourgeoisie.

    Just another champagne socialist hypocrite in a party rammed full of hypocrites of various stripes.

    Bill Gates made his own money by providing goods and services billions of people use and has given away most of it doing things like trying to fight diseases unlike people like Soros who uses his money to try and subvert democracies.. .. no relevant comparison between Laura Murray and Bill Gates.
     
  12. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 46,254

    Location: Plymouth

    You'd have thought he would have learnt by now...

    Linky
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,506

    Soros has done nothing of the sort, I’m not going to fall into your conspiracy laden trap.

    He’s consistently pushed countries with a lack of democracy to reform, through various channels, as a Jewish survivor, who knows all too well what subverted democracy actually means.

    And frankly someone who made billions is not going to be brutally left wing either.
     
  14. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,096

    I don't go after Soros because he's a jew. I go after him beacause I he has a demonstrable history of funding NGO's who actively try to subvert the majority will of numerous Western counties. Like wise you don't get to give him a free pass because he has Jewish heritage.....

    Don't you find it stange that a Hungarian born person who spends most of their time in the US spent hundreds of thousands backing a plan to derail a previous UK Referendum? He clearly doesn't give a care for the economic well being of the UK given his currency manipulation antics so what's his angle?

    Also a man who uses his money and power to advocate for Europe to throw billions more in of borrowed money at Africa (he called it an African Marshall plan) .... Because corruption won't at all be an issue if we do that right?

    No comparison between a convicted fraudster who funds NGO's trying to subvert the majority will and people like Gates trying to eliminate disease at their source.
     
  15. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,506

    Except he’s still consistent and I’m not using his heritage as a ‘someone is racist card’ either. Indeed he even described his family as being far removed from Jewish traditions, yet simply because he was born one he was destined for slaughter.

    Just that being a survivor of nazi occupied Hungary gives him a unique position for which his activities can be justified.

    His pushing of staying in the EU is justified because a united democratic Europe is entirely consistent with his desire for closer global cooperation and keeping nationalism at bay. His punishing of the uk in leaving the financial instrument pre EURO, I am not entirely sure what the aim was, but it fits with a right wing view of his increasing wealth, but he’s getting old and has little reason to sit on it.

    And I have no clue about what his African thing is, so won’t comment.

    Regardless if the likes of the Koch brothers are allowed to do literally the same thing for entirely traditionalist nonsense (though in reality not entirely sure what their goal is beyond what’s implied), why is soros the only enemy?

    What about Qatari or Russian oligarchs? Do they get a free pass and Soros doesn’t?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  16. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,096

    I never suggested he wasn't on the contrary its his consistent history of funding dubious causes and NGO's that's the issue

    You bought it up and if we are going to explore his actions during the world war then its only fair to bring up his indifference to the actions of the Nazi's he was accompanying (whilst hiding his heritage) and his attempts to subsequently surpress the documentary in which he made the comments about it...

    A unique positions as a survivor who clearly could not give a **** about the people he was witnessing being abused beacuse you know if he hadn't if done it someone else probably would have!

    I think your confusing no borders and 'closer global cooperation'.... Nothing gets nationalism riled up better than trying to implement mass uncontrolled migration of people often antagonistic to their host nation as well so nice try but no prize for you this time...


    His actions were solely for his own personal gain and forced the UK out of the ERM! How does that fit in with your fantasy idea of promoting greater international cooperation...?



    if only you had access to a network of interconnected computers and a very easy to use search engine....
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,506

    Interesting, maybe he has a lack of empathy for some reason or another and simply thinks logically, regardless his choices led to his survival... surely the only important trait one needs. Does seem rather nasty all these years on, but you can’t really judge a boy for choices that were perhaps out of their control, perhaps for lack of understanding. Not to downplay my opinion on the matter of nazi collaborators, but if I were at risk of being inprisoned and murdered (not that many knew the outcome anyway)... I don’t think I’d willingly fall on that sword just to appear honourable. But again he was a kid, so it’s mildly irrelevant anyway.

    Also it’s not uncontrolled in the EU bar perhaps the migration crisis, which has myriad reasons (not the thread for it, would take forever to explain for this minor point) for its coming to the fore, we have plenty of control and choose not to use it, that isn’t therefore ‘uncontrolled’. The same blairite/lying Tory governments continue not to use measures written into he agreements to control the flow of migration from particularly the new members.

    On the point of the African thing, you brought it up, and it may be up to me to waste some time looking into it, but I fear I’ll end up in some loopy conspiracy site paid for by the kochs. Does not seem worth arguing over something that hasn’t actually been discussed seriously enough to be plastered over the media as usually they are.

    Though I will raise the counter point that if we don’t, China will and then all those lovely resources will be stricken from our economy.

    I will concede on this blundering discussion of soros though, his thoughts are his, his actions are subjectively taken and this roundabout discussion is kinda pointless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  18. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 16,552

    Location: Kiel, Germany

  19. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,096


    The same snopes that references everything I stated in my post about what he said in that interview ?

    The same snopes that cites Soros' biographer Michael T. Kaufman in rebuttal to Soros' 'problematic' comments in the autobiography , released after the documentary in 2002, entitled Soros: the life and times of a messianic billionaire.. ... Does that sound like someone who would provide an objective stab at a biography or someone who might just have written a puff piece that would paint a rather flattering picture of its subject?

    I suggest reffering to him as a 'messiah' in the title might just be a hint?..

    And the same snopes that contradicts itself ...

    So he did collaborate with the Nazi's then even if only as a 'Spectator' ? (to be clear in the circumstances I have no issues with his actions *at the time* but his indifference decades later to the suffering of others runs contrary to the implication that he's a nice guy with good intentions who would be well placed to use his experience to help others unselflessly.)

    I'm assuming you actually have a point?

    Or did you think that you could lazily make an implication about my posts and rely on people not doing their own checks on the source when you try and suggest I'm a nazi for posting exactly what your source does?

    Yes some loons have things to say about most prominent people but that doesn't mean that all criticism of said persons is loony.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  20. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,965

    The most important thing to remember about the right is that they project. It's straight out of the Nazi playbook as written by Goebbels: accuse your enemy of doing the things that you are doing, because it weakens their criticism if they try to return fire. That's why the institutionally racist and Islamophobic Tories are attacking Corbyn with anti-Semitism, it's why the senior Brexiteers call Remainers "traitors undermining democracy" while their bank accounts are stuffed with Putin's roubles. And it's why they try to paint Soros as a Nazi when he spends money to try and oppose fascist-supported projects.