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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

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  1. Rroff

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    Have to say surprised at some of the names on there - some who wouldn't be a part of using something like this as a power move against Corbyn, etc. and would normally defensively try to obfuscate or mire the waters to deflect attention so must be actually something fairly concerning for them (maybe they just don't like Chris Williamson that much).
     
  2. Murphy

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    Does anyone, he's always come across as an ideologue to me, then again i guess Corbyn is the same and got elected as leader for exactly that reason.
     
  3. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

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    The only thing in his favour is ensuring this remains a 100% Tory mess as they will be unelectable(unless Johnston really screws up big time)
     
  4. terley

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    As someone who hates the labour party as it currently is..

    I find the anti-semitism claims to be absolute fiction based on a moralistic standpoint similar to those of the LGBTQ+ community.. If you have any questions at all about the legitimacy of the state of isreal you are deemed a raging anti-semite.

    The lunacy of those 63 MPs putting a name to a letter saying that somone who is clearly by any rational standpoint NOT an anti-semite makes them feel "unsafe at work" makes me seriously doubt the credibility of the party as a whole.
     
  5. GAC

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    labours having a mare it seems in the news today first up this idiot being let back in and now this

    sit back and wait for a general election and see who blinks first i guess with silly deals as its going to be a hung parliament with both main parties being a complete mess for the foreseeable future.
     
  6. BowdonUK

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    I've not followed Labour news in the early days when they used to get quite a few Scottish seats. How is it that they don't get many these days?

    When I first started following politics the Tories couldnt win any seat in Scotland, now the few seats the SNP fail to pick up go to the Tories before Labour.

    I've also never understood the message of Scottish Labour, I would have assumed they were all for Scottish Independance themselves, yet they seem to have been outflanked.

    How do people on the thread think Labour can re-take Scottish seats in the future?
     
  7. DarkHorizon472

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    Unfortunately new labour decimated the Labour vote in Scotland, the pinnacle of this was when Jim Murphy ran the general election campaign in Scotland, it is legendary for how much damage he caused. With the SNP in such a strong position it is hard to make headway.
     
  8. Cern

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    In short, they can't. The SNP have shown they are no longer just a single issue party, they are a competent party at both Westminister and the Scottish Parliament. With or without independence the SNP will remain a strong force in Scotland.

    Back in the early 90s when John Smith was briefly leader, Labour totally dominated Scotland and the SNP were in the wilderness as a single issue party, largely seen as a fringe party even within Scotland. Had Smith lived I think he'd have swept England & Wales along too and delivered a Labour government without any need for Blair and full blown New Labour. But alas, we all know what happened next.

    Labour under Corbyn can make no inroads into Scotland, not just because of his stance on Brexit but also his flavour of Labour. I don't see that any potential replacement for Corbyn would stand a much better chance either, because of how Labour has changed, but probably couldn't do worse.
     
  9. RedvGreen

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    I am totally 100% behind the SNP - they are measured, composed and are a far better calibre of politician than most of what reside in the HoC from England, Wales and NI.
     
  10. Dolph

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  11. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

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    Referring back to the letter from the Labour MPs regarding Brexit.

    Labour was once the party of the Labour movement and reflected the views and prejudices of that core. In the 60’s social liberalism grew and found its home in the Labour movement and attracted more educated and affluent supporters to the party. The balance was however firmly dominated by union movement led core “working class” voters. This balance has significantly moved and by the mid 80’s the core wasn’t enough to sustain Labour winning elections. The social liberal side of the party has grown significantly in that time and with the support of the education establishment helped shape new group of Labour supporters with a very different set of beliefs to the old core. To the extent that the two are more balanced than ever. The success of New Labour was in convincing more people that it was the home of social liberalism. But with changing political outlooks the two pillars of the Labour Party although sharing some ideals are quite far apart on others. Brexit being a good example, the social liberals are the hard core remain wing, the working classes the generally leave side. Labour has a problem that the tension between its two pillars provides opportunities for populist parties to exploit.
    For instance, the collapse of Labour in Scotland. This was self inflicted, so sure of their fiefdom they allowed Devolution which gave the SNP the space they needed expand in the political consciousness. No longer would the voters of Glasgow punch themselves in the face voting for a party that took their support for granted, they turned to a party that could offer things Labour couldn’t. So it is with Brexit, Stephen Kinnock is right to say if they don’t deliver then their core vote which has already lost faith will look to others. The tension between the social liberal and core wings is a real problem and having been exposed in Scotland already is further exposed by Brexit.

    I think the rise of the SNP and the Brexit troubles with the core vote both stem from this tension between the superior and condescending liberals and the often more socially conservative core working class vote.
    In comparison the Conservatives have a massive problem with Brexit because the EU has split the party for 30years but if Brexit goes through I would suggest that tension will fade once the deed is done as they are far less split on other policy much more a broad church with an analogue range of views on most matters. Labours tensions are probably less easily dealt with because Brexit is more cause of the moment that exemplifies the problem that will remain.
     
  12. terley

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    I think you have massively over-complicated a simple explanation for why people no longer believe in the labour party..

    Its the same thing we saw at play the other day in the US Democratic debate in which each candidate tried to "out-left" each other, talking about 70% and 90% tax rates, no limit abortions, open borders, making private healthcare illegal etc...

    People have zero faith in people that are so willing to promise things that are quite literally impossible and dangerous.. The peacocking of these left-wing politicians to try and win people over to their site completely discredits them as a viable political leader.

    And the exact same thing is seen with the modern labour party, at least under corbyn.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

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    No great surprise that Williamson had the whip removed or suspended again.

    What I find astounding is that Keith Vaz was on the board. I thought he was still on dodgy ground from the rent boy drug buying scandal and the investigation he dodged because of his bad back or something.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ake-third-attempt-to-censure-chris-williamson
     
  14. Gigabit

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    Williamson isn't even a true leftist, the fawning over him is bizarre.

    He goes where the leadership goes, see his 2015-era voting record
     
  15. doodah

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    I give up - decision after decision takes an age and then the wrong one is made. How did they/he not see this happening?
     
  16. DarkHorizon472

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    I do feel a bit sorry for Labour in general they are getting it from both extremes of the party, what was new labour attacking at any opportunity and the far left continually shooting Labour in the foot. There are more important things the party needs to focus on.
     
  17. terley

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    As much as i like the man as a person they need to oust Corbyn, sack Dianne-Abbot, sack Emily Thornberry and Jess Phillips and get a charismatic center-left leader that has clear achievable and well thought out policies..
     
  18. DarkHorizon472

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    My guess was Corbyn in taking control of the party would remove the worst excesses of new labour and this would allow the party to move closer to its founding principles and rebuild itself after losing Scotland to the SNP and numerous left behind voters to UKIP etc. To some extent this has happened but as often happens you get an endless list of critics and extremists rather than statesmen who take the party forward.
     
  19. Dolph

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    To be honest, one of the other members was a pretty tone deaf choice too.



     
  20. RedvGreen

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