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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

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  1. ebilcake

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2007

    Posts: 846

    Why? Because at the last election they promised to respect the referendum result, not block progress at any opportunity.
     
  2. ebilcake

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2007

    Posts: 846

    You're completely right, everything you posted is nonsense.
     
  3. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,151

    They did, they voted to trigger article 50.

    Then the Tories got two crap deals approved that by the governments own projections (at least with the May withdrawal agreement and 'No deal' planning) will make us considerably worse off economically. Labour won't vote for the ****** deal.
     
  4. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,263

    Location: Plymouth

    More revisionist nonsense. Labour's position is not, and never has been based on the contents of the deal. Only idiots and liars pretend otherwise.

    Labour's position has been based on the same partisan idiocy seen from posters in this thread, namely that the people negotiating the deal matter more than the contents of the deal.
     
  5. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,151

    You think they should vote for the deal Dolph? Didn't you recently say Boris was worse than Corbyn?
     
  6. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,263

    Location: Plymouth

    No, and if that sort of false dichotomy is all you've got then you don't have anything useful.

    They should have a credible, deliverable alternative position. They don't.
     
  7. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,151

    I'll ignore being called an idiot and a liar.

    What should Labour do, in your opinion? This is not a "Gotcha", I am generally interested.

    Labour haven't covered themselves in glory, but nor are they frustrating democracy.
     
  8. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,263

    Location: Plymouth

    Labour should be listening to their members, and backing a referendum, supporting remain. With Labour supporting a second referendum on the deal vs remain, it will get through parliament.

    The only reason they haven't is because the party leadership is full of Brexiteers and has used their influence to frustrate and prevent at every turn, in the hope of a disaster brexit they can blame on someone else.
     
  9. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 19,151

    Agree with this

    I don't believe Corbyn or McDonnell are Brexiteers. Certainly years ago Corbyn was a skeptic, but I guess we'll never really know how they voted. Corbyn didn't exactly spearhead the remain campaign trail though.
     
  10. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,263

    Location: Plymouth

    You don't believe Corbyn is a Brexiteer?

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
     
  11. LOAM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 20, 2004

    Posts: 11,343

    Location: Nottingham

    Where as I'm terrified of the Tories, I'd like to give labour a shake. It's alarming that along with THE worst government in history (spanning back to Cameron) we've also been lumbered with THE worst opposition in history.

    I understand labour always get a decent voting bounce once the lying has to stop but a decent opposition would be out of sight by now.

    I'm no fan of Blair (quite the opposite) but by god he would eat this lot as a snack. The quality of modern day politicians is so low.
     
  12. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,394

    Thats because depending on who or at least which party is trying to negogiate has a different outlook of what they want the country to be. Id have thought you would be fully behind the Tories Singapore brexit. It follows your low tax, less regulation ideology you spout so much.

    At least labour wants to put the enviroment, workers rights and food standards at the forefront of the deal. The Tories want to be out so they can lower those standards which have so far been hampered due to the EU.

    You are just sad because you can no longer admit publicly to being a Tory fan/voter.
     
  13. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 31,519

    Corbyn speaking now if anyone’s interested.
     
  14. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2010

    Posts: 16,342

    Location: Cardiff

    Agreed
    Felt like this is how trump got in.
    Terrible opposition

    Need to be thankful the brexit party exists as the remain vote is so split
     
  15. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,539



    Hahaha hilarity, Labour seem to WANT to lose.
     
  16. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 42,605

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...hern-ireland-thrown-under-a-bus-38624616.html
    Fair comment tbh... honestly what are Labour doing with this guy - Boris has done pretty well to be fair to him in scoring a deal after everyone thought he couldn't/EU stated they'd not reopen the WA etc... but given the numbers in Westminster any competent opposition leader could have destroyed the Tories by now. In fact someone less of a **** stain could have overthrown the government and lead a unity government instead... likely not just with the current remainer Tories but possibly more from the moderate side of the party... especially if they were happy to accept the referendum result and go for a single market type deal that could be flogged as a better compromise. In fact anyone who did that would get serous kudos for finally sorting out Brexit.
     
  17. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,567

    Location: Lincs

    That's just not true. Europe said they wouldn't reopen the WA based on the current [at the time] red lines. Boris completely failed at negotiating his new proposal so capitulated to what the EU wanted and broke TMs and his own red lines, hence the EU were happy to amend the WA.

    Not sure being a surrender monkey is a trait we should be lauding tbh
     
  18. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 42,605

    No one wants to give him any props... they said the WA wouldn't be opened/backstop not negotiable. People said he couldn't do it... he does and then it gets dismissed as a "surrender deal". Yet it leaves open the future trade negotiations to being as flexible as possible - not locked into a closer relationship but then again a future Labour government, if they win, aren't prohibited from negotiating one.
     
  19. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,394

    Boris went against what he said he would do yet again and you still think he is genuine? I wouldnt mind brexiters as much if the didnt keep lying and changing their story at every stage.

    Brexit just sounds like hate in a can to me.

    Its really starting to look like the only way to get a second ref is to vote Labour.
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,693

    Except if they negotiate their own deal that they deem acceptable and push through parliament?

    While I accept it's more likely they'll be a 2nd ref under Labour its by far from a guarantee.
     
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