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The Labour Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by q974739, Nov 25, 2015.

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  1. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 44,003

    Who was the first Tory Mayor of London again?
     
  2. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,444

    And what did he do with it? Use it as a PR opportunity, by all accounts going be what's said, the majority of the work was done by the office, i'm sure that's the same regardless of Mayor, but he always made it sound like any populist would that it was because of him, only to **** money up the wall on vanity projects that went nowhere... well actually they did go somewhere into consultant fees for his chums.

    By the... other sounds of things he used it to for other reasons (which is unfortunately believable because of his personal life) if the Acuri issue is actually substantive, we'll see.

    I'm willing to give him some leeway for his premiership (I'm actually hoping his liberal attitudes shine and that he's not just a populist idiot looking to self-congratulate himself), but so far it's been a disaster, i'll put that up to being limited by the scope of policy to focus on, but not by much.
     
  3. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 13,822

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Its not that loads of people like Boris, his approval rating is abysmal, its all down to Brexit and nothing else.
     
  4. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 44,003

    Rather tangental - the point wasn't what he did with it but rather the point was to illustrate that your statement was completely balls - this is the Tory who was, against the odds, elected Mayor of London. And you're coming out with BS like:

    "Not because they're objectively electable though, which is my point"

    The objectively are electable under Boris, why do you think half of Labour was running scared and pressured Comrade Corbyn into his Chicken Corbyn stance a bunch of times?

    It is one thing to not like Boris etc.. it is another thing to naively just dismiss him as otherwise unelectable and pretend that if he manages to get elected then it is all down to Brexit. He's also pretty good at winning votes himself so has a decent chance of success here.
     
  5. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,643

    I repeat for the 50 millionth time: Labour members are less anti-Semitic than the general public and significantly less so than Conservatives. "Anti-Semitism" is centrist Brexit.
     
  6. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,650

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    I find that hard to believe. The Tories aren't the ones with an ongoing anti-semitism scandal, and they tend to be pro-Israel, while Labour tends to be anti-Israel (and yes I know there's a group called Labour Friends of Israel, but they are not representative of the party as a whole, and the left wing media bashes them incessantly).

    If Labour is so matey with the Jews, why does it have such a big anti-semitism problem?

    But certainly not limited to centrist Brexit.
     
  7. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,355


    You are conflating anti-israel with anti-semitism.
     
  8. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,643

    There are anti-Semites in Labour, as in almost every group in the UK, but the "scandal" has been manufactured by the right wing media. It's like me saying you're a paedophile, then asking why we should trust your opinion when you refuse to address the ongoing "Evangelion is a paedo" scandal.

    By the way, the international definition of anti-Semitism includes conflating Israel with Jews. So by saying Labour is anti-Semitic because they are opposed to Israeli genocide, you are being anti-Semitic.
     
  9. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,437

    Location: London

    Wow, some really thorny exchanges in the House over Keth Vaz!
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 22,444

    Deserved, the least he could have done is just admit it, it's not like the rest of parliament isn't filled with drugged up, drunk, sexually improprietous weasels.

    The sooner this society accepts that drugs isn't worth the expense, the better.
     
  11. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,068

    It's not like Labour are even anti-Israel, it's more anti what Israel are doing to Palestine or pro-two state solution, the way things are going there won't be Palestinians.
     
  12. Steampunk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 1, 2013

    Posts: 6,827

    Exactly. Criticising the state of Israel for how it's treating Palestinians is not the same as anti-Semitism. I've even seen quite a few of the more progressive Israeli commentators saying how Israel needs to "stop hiding behind the holocaust" every time they get criticised for how they treat the Palestinians.

    It's like the situation in Northern Ireland and Eire. The choice is to destroy the other party through genocide, invade and take it over culturally for several generations, or come to some kind of peaceful agreement as a way forwards without violence.
     
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,539

    Location: Plymouth

    And this answers the problem of institutional antisemitism driven by the party leadership how? Or is it another distraction from you?

    Do you believe that the Jewish community has the same rights labour insists other minority communities do to define racism against themselves?

    Do you accept the international definition of antisemitism, and that breaching it means you are being antisemitic?
     
  14. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,650

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    No, I'm observing that in addition to its anti-semitism problem, Labour also tends to be anti-Israel. The party's sympathy towards Hezbollah does not help.
     
  15. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,650

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    I'm pro-two state, and I absolutely condemn Israel's use of state sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians, but claiming 'the way things are going there won't be Palestinians' is just a little ridiculous.

    (Source).
     
  16. Secret_Window

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 10, 2006

    Posts: 4,934

    One hope is that if Labour lose badly, they might then get rid of Corbyn and reform the party, and then we might get a decent opposition which would mean they have fighting chance of bringing down the Tories under Boris before another election. But who knows. It's also more likely we could see a brand new party form also.
     
  17. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 10,155

    That's if you believe there'll be anything left to save after 5 years of unfettered full frother Tory rule.
     
  18. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,437

    Location: London

    Flying in the face of facts today i see :)
     
  19. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,437

    Location: London

    Catching up, i see Labour had a rough first day. Keith Vaz reselected despite buying **** sorry i mean coke :o for a male prostitute. And then the Jews abandoning the Labour party...ouch!

    Oh and Labour want to name and shame entrepreneurs who make millions and provide jobs for this country because of *meh jealously*

    Going great Comrade..keep going :D
     
  20. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 13,822

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Which facts are those? Yougov has him 34% positive opinion, 48% negative.
     
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