The line that time forgot

Deadly Ferret · 7 Apr 2016 at 21:42

Is there a way to get broadband without paying through the nose for an otherwise redundant & utterly worthless telephone line?

I'm years out of the loop, and have to organise a connection for a new home, but I would have expected by now to not be weighed down by such obsolete & overpriced technology as a landline...

A comparison site I just looked at gave a table showing a pack of punters that each want upwards of £16.99 for the line! :eek:

russ9898 · 7 Apr 2016 at 22:15

I don't see why you think a landline is obsolete? It's being used to deliver a service, the line rental helps to cover the cost of maintaining that line and the equipment that assists in delivering your internet service.

The main use for many of a landline may have changed from delivering a phone service primarily to a broadband service but it's very much far from obsolete.

If you resent it that much my suggestion would be to look at getting a 4g dongle or use a Virgin media cable connection

Sparx · 7 Apr 2016 at 22:29

+1 as it's being explained nowadays, the 'line rental' isn't just to give you a landline phone service. The majority of the line rental cost is 'maintenance money', for Openreach to maintain the UK infrastructure.

DSL service providers are still just as competitive as Virgin, Hyperoptic etc who offer 'broadband only' packages.

andicole0 · 7 Apr 2016 at 22:35

Land lines are just like the Ethernet cable at home. Feel free to look at Satellite or 4G wifi solutions but be prepared for errors, slow and inconsistent connections.
Andi.

Orcvader · 7 Apr 2016 at 23:37

Well what do you expect, ADSL/FTTC still uses the landline to deliver broadband.

However, it looks like someone wants to scrap landline charges: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35869222

But I doubt it will happen.

Sparx · 8 Apr 2016 at 00:09

Orcvader said:
Well what do you expect, ADSL/FTTC still uses the landline to deliver broadband.

However, it looks like someone wants to scrap landline charges: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35869222

But I doubt it will happen.

If it ever does happen, all Openreach will do is incorporate it into the broadband cost so it's clear.

It will never be cheaper!

EDIT: In fact even Mr Vaizey says the same thing on that article!

Mr Vaizey said: "If the companies come up with a different pricing structure, that is fine, as long as consumers can see what they are paying for."

The minister said ending hidden costs, such as line rental, could mean other products becoming more expensive, but he wanted transparency around pricing.

Caged · 8 Apr 2016 at 01:07

Landline costs are so high because they are being used to subsidise "free" broadband deals.

The line costs your provider £87.65 per year plus VAT.

bremen1874 · 8 Apr 2016 at 02:09

It's not just the "free" deals. There always seems to be a price hike if you want broadband only. For example both Plusnet and Zen charge extra if you don't move your line to them. I can't see that it costs them any more to provide broadband only.

Virgin really take the biscuit. They charge line rental at a rate equivalent to an Openreach line without any justification I can see. They then also charge extra if you only want broadband. They have complete control over their own infrastructure and then charge as if they are a LLU operator.

bledd · 8 Apr 2016 at 09:16

Plusnet

Look for Quidco/Topcashback first.

Line rental = you'll be using the line 24/7, damn right they should charge for it! It's one huge cobweb of copper/fibre that spans over the whole of the UK.

KIA · 8 Apr 2016 at 18:06

Orcvader said:
Well what do you expect, ADSL/FTTC still uses the landline to deliver broadband.

However, it looks like someone wants to scrap landline charges: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35869222

But I doubt it will happen.

Combined LR + broadband is a better approach.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...ng-of-broadband-prices-likely-to-mislead.html

Too much misleading broadband advertising these days.

Sin_Chase · 8 Apr 2016 at 23:22

I have Fibre to the property. I still have to pay "Line Rental" of £12.99 a month for a 'landline' I wont even have a phone plugged in to. It's a complete con.

russ9898 · 8 Apr 2016 at 23:34

Sin_Chase said:
I have Fibre to the property. I still have to pay "Line Rental" of £12.99 a month for a 'landline' I wont even have a phone plugged in to. It's a complete con.

Fibre as in a fibre optic cable to your property? (FTTP) or fibre as in BT Infinity 40 or 80mbit service over the existing copper cable?

Caged · 8 Apr 2016 at 23:50

I am in 100% agreement that the advertising needs to change. "Unlimited broadband for £5 a month plus £17.99 for your phone line" shouldn't exist.

r7slayer · 9 Apr 2016 at 01:06

I don't get it when people cry about the line rental. What are your broadband services being provided on? Copper? You might argue your on FTTC and only use a smaller lengh of copper so surley you should pay less? Ive had this argument before however line rental covers the maintainece of the fibre lines also. Hence line rental...

What does fibre use? Fibre optic lines from the exchange to the cabs. They need maintaining too hence line rental. Same for FTTP... what are services being provided down? Fibre lines/cables hence line rental to maintain it.

Your better off complaining about paying tax for maintaining NHS and for the running of services like police and fire services seen as you don't use them half the time...

Sin_Chase · 9 Apr 2016 at 02:11

russ9898 said:
Fibre as in a fibre optic cable to your property? (FTTP) or fibre as in BT Infinity 40 or 80mbit service over the existing copper cable?

Yes, FTTP.

End to end complete fibre up to 1Gbit.

Sin_Chase · 9 Apr 2016 at 02:14

r7slayer said:
What does fibre use? Fibre optic lines from the exchange to the cabs. They need maintaining too hence line rental. Same for FTTP... what are services being provided down? Fibre lines/cables hence line rental to maintain it.

Your better off complaining about paying tax for maintaining NHS and for the running of services like police and fire services seen as you don't use them half the time...

Poor analogy.

Yes, fibre optic needs maintaining (Sort of). But a Line Rental offers a Home Telephone service for your home phone. A % of that cost is attributed to assignment of a telephone number and the service that provides.

For those of us who have FTTP the infrastructure for the internet is the fibre itself and is required, obviously. But why, in this case, is there not a separate pricing structure for those of us who do not want an assigned telephone line and the service that provides?

Line Rental is a left over relic of the copper line days where internet was an additional service to your landline and a landline was REQUIRED to provision it. Times have changed, a home telephone number is not a requirement to provision FTTP.

Orcvader · 9 Apr 2016 at 11:52

Sin_Chase said:
Poor analogy.

Yes, fibre optic needs maintaining (Sort of). But a Line Rental offers a Home Telephone service for your home phone. A % of that cost is attributed to assignment of a telephone number and the service that provides.

For those of us who have FTTP the infrastructure for the internet is the fibre itself and is required, obviously. But why, in this case, is there not a separate pricing structure for those of us who do not want an assigned telephone line and the service that provides?

Line Rental is a left over relic of the copper line days where internet was an additional service to your landline and a landline was REQUIRED to provision it. Times have changed, a home telephone number is not a requirement to provision FTTP.

Fair point, I can definitely understand for FTTP, there's no need for the old telephone line. Virgin does broadband only deals so BT should do as well, at least with FTTP.

Caged · 9 Apr 2016 at 12:16

Sin_Chase said:
For those of us who have FTTP the infrastructure for the internet is the fibre itself and is required, obviously. But why, in this case, is there not a separate pricing structure for those of us who do not want an assigned telephone line and the service that provides?

There is, but the people who actually sell the service aren't going to give up the lucrative 'money for nothing' option of charging you for a phone line you don't want, or a few pence less for not having the line.

Hyperoptic do it, Virgin Media do it.

330Mbit FTTP is £456+VAT annually for the circuit, to have it with the voice ports activated costs £4 more annually. But your retail provider will charge you £16+ per month for it.

It's done to push the headline costs for 'broadband' down because customers are, broadly speaking, only interested in the lowest priced product. It's an advertising regulatory change that needs to be made, not a technical one.

r7slayer · 9 Apr 2016 at 12:42

Sin_Chase said:
Poor analogy.

Yes, fibre optic needs maintaining (Sort of). But a Line Rental offers a Home Telephone service for your home phone. A % of that cost is attributed to assignment of a telephone number and the service that provides.

For those of us who have FTTP the infrastructure for the internet is the fibre itself and is required, obviously. But why, in this case, is there not a separate pricing structure for those of us who do not want an assigned telephone line and the service that provides?

Line Rental is a left over relic of the copper line days where internet was an additional service to your landline and a landline was REQUIRED to provision it. Times have changed, a home telephone number is not a requirement to provision FTTP.

Well to be fair line rental still covers the cost of maintaining the lines you are using to get internet services provided on. I'm very aware of what line rental charges are for and used to cover. The problem is that seen as things have changed the description or the awareness of what line rental covers has not.

This is why Ofcom are stepping it to mix things up. Consumers wont end up paying less rather will end up having a better understanding of what they are paying for.

Trust me line rental still covers the cost of maintaining both copper and fibre lines but how can consumers know that? It's not clear as line rental used to be for a phone service.

BT don't exactly help when they say this "BT - whether you have the option of making the phone calls or not, the cost of maintaining the line is the same." what they mean by that is you may not use the line to make calls but you are still using it (internet) and the cost of maintaining those lines still costs.

People loose their **** when the internet doesn't work but surprise surprise what does the internet get provided down? Openreach's infrastructure which costs to maintain. It's only right you pay line rental but perhaps a better understanding of what your paying for.
I do beleive fibre optic lines take less maintaining however does cost more to fix when there is a problem.

My opinion when some one hates on line rental is well go use mobile internet or satellite and see how much better that is for your self?

TheVoice · 9 Apr 2016 at 13:54

Line rental is no different to the standing charge on your electricity bill really. They might change the way you're charged for line rental or change the name but the cost isn't going to go away.