The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[FrankJH]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...united-transfers-morgan-schneiderlin-12448360

According to the Manchester Evening News Utd are going to make thier money back incl addons

(and thats despite MS 's contract being nearly at 50% of what it was, or being 1/2 way through it )

His wiki page also suggests both transfers were upto £24m incl addons

I never suggested it was anything new that tv deals get bigger, but being an english player that actually cost nothing initially should mean Utd could get at least £10m for Lingard if they so chose in a couple of years time and the bigger tv deal by that time should make such a moderately budget buy easier for lower EPL teams.

Everything is relative to the clubs turnover , no matter which club you are talking about - funnily enough including wages , even if Utd have to give 20k/week (or £2m) over the remaining of the contract, its still easy to see him going at that time for £16-17m , compared to some of the really stupidly overpriced EPL - EPL deals over the last couple of years.

Similar amounts......only about 20% difference (£149m v £174m) - ie not similar at all

both teams have made as many "radical changes" - Utd - 1st choice centre half, 1st choice AM/ No 10, 1st choice Striker vs City gk , centre half and striker (and City's centre half was at least used to the league) + some subs....and even then they still had Aguerro as backup so not really that "radical" a change in any case.

 

[BaZ87]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...united-transfers-morgan-schneiderlin-12448360

According to the Manchester Evening News Utd are going to make thier money back incl addons

(and thats despite MS 's contract being nearly at 50% of what it was, or being 1/2 way through it )

His wiki page also suggests both transfers were upto £24m incl addons

I never suggested it was anything new that tv deals get bigger, but being an english player that actually cost nothing initially should mean Utd could get at least £10m for Lingard if they so chose in a couple of years time and the bigger tv deal by that time should make such a moderately budget buy easier for lower EPL teams.

Everything is relative to the clubs turnover , no matter which club you are talking about - funnily enough including wages , even if Utd have to give 20k/week (or £2m) over the remaining of the contract, its still easy to see him going at that time for £16-17m , compared to some of the really stupidly overpriced EPL - EPL deals over the last couple of years.

Similar amounts......only about 20% difference (£149m v £174m) - ie not similar at all

both teams have made as many "radical changes" - Utd - 1st choice centre half, 1st choice AM/ No 10, 1st choice Striker vs City gk , centre half and striker (and City's centre half was at least used to the league) + some subs....and even then they still had Aguerro as backup so not really that "radical" a change in any case.

The fee you signed him for was reportedly worth up to £27m (his wiki page says that actually), where as you sold him for up to £24m. As with Lingard's wages, that's neither here nor there though, the point stands. Despite the massive new TV deal Utd lost money on the transfer - fees don't automatically go up as you were suggesting. He was only 18 months into a 4(+1) year contract too so that had no negative impact on Utd's bargaining position.

And I've not questioned the rights or wrongs of Lingard getting this new contract. As I said, because Utd pay so much to their top players they're practically forced to pay huge wages to the **** ones too. It was no different when Wes Brown was demanding £60k per week 10 years ago. And itt's the same at every club, the top earners set the benchmark and everyone elses pay is based on that. I was only questioning your warped logic that Utd would get a significant fee for him simply because other players have gone for similar money and that fee will only get bigger - that's not the reality though. Just because x or y have gone for similar fees that doesn't mean Lingard will go for the same - transfer fees aren't just determined on ability. The fact that Lingard is going to cost an extra £x in wages over his contract will be reflected in what clubs will offer for him.

And no both teams haven't made radical changes. The radical changes I'm talking about aren't new players which is why I mentioned transfers separately. Guardiola has made fundemental changes to the way City play - ways in which most if not all of their players would have never played before.

edit: and again, the point about potential difficulties Utd will face selling Lingard in the future is not unique to them. It's always difficult for bigger sides to sell well because if a player isn't good enough for them then he's probably not going to be good enough for any other club that can or will match their wages..

 

[Steedie]

EDIT - Rules say it needs to go in its own thread not in here sorry

 

[FrankJH]

To put it into context, reports online suggest Leroy Sane, Emre Can, Nolito are on a lot less and Sadio Mane is on a similar wage. Lingard has scored 5 league goals in his career and United have lumped him on 100k a week, absolute madness.

Mane also cost £30-40m or whatever, Lingard didnt cost anything

He is also English which immediately seems to get you £25k a week in the EPL (for right or wrong)

At the end of the day, Utd's turnover is 66% higher than Liverpool's (rough guess based on - 2016 figures of ~£300m , compared to Utd that I seem to recall was about £515m or something)

Not to mention that Mane has a lot more experience currently - maybe Lingard wont even become a Nani, and he wasnt exactly brilliant majority of the time, or he could become a reliable , if a bit average, squad player. If Lingard keeps on scoring in finals (which he has a habit of) , even if he does little else - the wages will take care of themselves.

The fee you signed him for was reportedly worth up to £27m (his wiki page says that actually), where as you sold him for up to £24m. As with Lingard's wages, that's neither here nor there though, the point stands. Despite the massive new TV deal Utd lost money on the transfer - fees don't automatically go up as you were suggesting. He was only 18 months into a 4(+1) year contract too so that had no negative impact on Utd's bargaining position

Even the MEN said literally the other day (in regards to spending potential for the summer) Utd got back £45m for Schneiderlin and Depay

Was amazed they came up with that figure but guess we wont know until results are published

Given that Schneiderlin had "used up" 18 months of the 4 year contract , therefore whatever was left on the books was officially - not quite - 1/2 of what we paid . Not sure the optional year would count at this point or not, as it is only an option. So surely as long as Utd got back £15m or whatever the books are balanced and technically didnt lose anything. Obviously Utd wanted to get as much as possible that they paid out - thats all I was referring to.

It may have been worth UPTO - but you really reckon he would have got ANY of the supplemental clauses paid out, I highly doubt it some how

 

[The Running Man]

So Paul pogba shot to goal conversion rate this season in the league is 4%. Anyone know why it's so bad? The average in the league is like 10%.

Least wins ever in a pre,ire league season for Man Utd.
Season has been utterly dire.

You know when old man right back Valencia is player of the season everyone else has been utter turbo.

 

[Gustov]

You know you've had a **** season when......

https://twitter.com/SquawkaNews/status/865316201660116992

Damn....beat me to it ^^

 

[Robbo]

The season has been a very poor one, Mourinho has made us hard to beat but that's come at a cost in attack. Having said that, our finishing has been awful, I can think of many games where if we'd been a bit more clinical we could have a lot more points. Injuries haven't helped either, though that's nothing new.

Despite all this, winning the Europa League would make it an acceptable season, if not a great one. If we lose the final then it'll be a disaster and the pressure will really be on next season to deliver, big time.

 

[Robert]

I'm hoping he has laid down the groundwork and knows exactly what we need. He'll know who doesn't have the mentality to win every week and who does.

 

[FrankJH]

The season has been a very poor one, Mourinho has made us hard to beat but that's come at a cost in attack. Having said that, our finishing has been awful, I can think of many games where if we'd been a bit more clinical we could have a lot more points. Injuries haven't helped either, though that's nothing new.

I think thats a little harsh on JM myself.

The team must have produced 100's more chances this season compared to the last two , its just that we are not clinical enough - as you stated later. Zlatan has been brilliant undoubtedly, but when even he misses good chances (and there have been quite a few bad misses from him in big games), its harsh to criticize the less experienced players.

We would easily have been in the top four even with just converting 5 - 10% of the chances created, its that big a difference from LvG

Despite all this, winning the Europa League would make it an acceptable season, if not a great one. If we lose the final then it'll be a disaster and the pressure will really be on next season to deliver, big time.

+10

 

[johnyccc]

This season could only be looked upon positivity by comparing it against LVG's time at the club. This is especially true of the football played, which against any other comparison would be seen for the trash that it is.

JM had plenty of time to see us before taking over. He either managed to miss how many poor players we had or believed he could improve them, something that generally speaking he has failed to do.

Aside from being unable to effect players individually, he's shown little ability to form a balanced team with a recognised style or system.

I also believe he should have attempted something in the January transfer market. It was clear the squad didn't have enough goals and it was also clear how many games we could end up playing. Had Zlatan been injured earlier (lets not forget it was lucky he played as many games as he did, considering his age), then the mishandling of the squad would have been even more costly.

Lastly, the constant moaning to the press is beyond tiresome. If he's not making excuses, he's throwing someone under the bus.

My only hope is that we see radical changes to the squad for next season. A few big money signings on top of what we have won't improve us dramatically, at least not under Jose.

 

[FrankJH]

looking at how difficult Mkhi found it to adjust and to a certain extent Pogba, I'm not sure how successful any winter transfers would have been

There have also been a few rumours since the close of the window that some incoming transfers were attempted just didn't come off for one reason or another (I'm not naming names because I cant remember, its pretty irrelevant as they didn't come off anyway and its impossible to know what would have happened if they did arrive)

Excluding a possible gk change and kids coming into the youth setup - I would be surprised if JM gets any more than 5 in (4 + additional one instead of Zlatan re-signing) - the squad could do with 7 + but its nigh on impossible to assimilate that number with a high profile team in one window.

 

[BaZ87]

This season could only be looked upon positivity by comparing it against LVG's time at the club.

Isn't the only difference between LVG's last season and this season an easier run in the Europa League? Given the way you've made hard work getting to the final against the likes of Celta and Anderlecht, you can't help but think that had you faced the same competition as last season you wouldn't be there now - and you've been just as bad in the League as you were last year.

 

[Robbo]

The performances have been better this season, despite the generally poor results. I can think of numerous games where we've ended up drawing what should have been a win. All largely down to very poor finishing.

Mourinho has done some good and some bad, but ultimately it's clear he doesn't like most of the players so new ones will be needed, I'd say at least 6 in various positions.

 

[FrankJH]

what the **** happened there - I don't think I said /did anything wrong?

 

[Robbo]

what the **** happened there - I don't think I said /did anything wrong?

Transfer stuff into the transfer thread.

 

[FrankJH]

if its specifics (like certain players) then fair enough - otherwise that's complete nonsense
hey ho

 

[BaZ87]

You didn't do anything wrong but if all we're discussing is transfer related stuff then it's best to go in the transfer thread.

edit: and just to explain why. Things naturally evolve - what starts as saying x amount of changes are needed goes onto we need a new LB, we should sign x, we've bid for x etc etc etc.

 

[FrankJH]

I totally get about specifics, whether that's players or just positions

Just think sometimes such general posts don't fit well in the transfer threads - anyway np

 

[ThestigGT999]

Mourinho accused of tax fraud during Real Madrid stint

 

[FrankJH]

The fact that Messi, Ronaldo and Mourinho all get hauled up in a short time frame - Im wondering it the Spanish authorities have tightened a loophole recently and trying to back date things

(even for a tax case it seems like these are coming to court quite late, all referring to 2011-2014)