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drunkenmaster · 20 Jun 2017 at 16:05

Messi's case started a long time ago, maybe 3-4 years even. At first it was all about him then there was a loads of stuff about his father, testifying, they were trying to take the blame and insulate their meal ticket, etc.

Looked it up, case started in 2013, they paid some/all of the tax back, the court case was still ongoing, I believe it got pushed back multiple times but eventually he was convicted of 21 months last year then this year he lost an appeal against that conviction in the supreme court.

So 2013 vs 2017, the cases aren't particularly close. I think it's a case of people dig into it they then find a particular dummy corp in some random country that they realise is a Barcelona tax haven/payment scheme to players and once they find that they can start identifying which players were paid so players all get done at similar times. So I would guess that they've found something similar with Real and are finding links to players at Real now.

FrankJH · 21 Jun 2017 at 10:24

drunkenmaster said:
Messi's case started a long time ago, maybe 3-4 years even. At first it was all about him then there was a loads of stuff about his father, testifying, they were trying to take the blame and insulate their meal ticket, etc.

Looked it up, case started in 2013, they paid some/all of the tax back, the court case was still ongoing, I believe it got pushed back multiple times but eventually he was convicted of 21 months last year then this year he lost an appeal against that conviction in the supreme court.

So 2013 vs 2017, the cases aren't particularly close. I think it's a case of people dig into it they then find a particular dummy corp in some random country that they realise is a Barcelona tax haven/payment scheme to players and once they find that they can start identifying which players were paid so players all get done at similar times. So I would guess that they've found something similar with Real and are finding links to players at Real now.

which is exactly what "tightening up a loophole" is - well done!!

fez · 21 Jun 2017 at 10:55

I don't know how anyone can say that last season wasn't a success. We won the EL and league cup, were back in the CL and we played much better than we have for years. We created A LOT of chances, we just missed a lot of them. If we can sort that out we will suddenly be a force to be reckoned with. We drew far too many games last season that we should have easily won and if we sort that out, our league position will be much better.

drunkenmaster · 21 Jun 2017 at 12:40

FrankJH said:
which is exactly what "tightening up a loophole" is - well done!!

Nothing I said was tightening a loophole, it was mostly made to point out that they didn't get hauled up in a short space of time, Ronaldo's just started and Messi's started 4+ years ago.

FrankJH · 25 Jun 2017 at 14:09

"particular dummy corporation in some random country" is exactly what tightening a loophole is

Barca most likely paid a significant amount of money to set it up in the first place - if this is even the case - now the tax authorities know about it they are shutting it down......or closing the loophole!!!

div0 · 25 Jun 2017 at 17:13

FrankJH said:
"particular dummy corporation in some random country" is exactly what tightening a loophole is

Barca most likely paid a significant amount of money to set it up in the first place - if this is even the case - now the tax authorities know about it they are shutting it down......or closing the loophole!!!

Closing a loophole is something which prevents people from doing something which was previously legal (tax avoidance). Closing a loophole only makes something which was legal in the past, now illegal.

Chasing people for tax evasion implies there was no loophole to close.

It sounds like the authorities have become aware of a scheme which many footballers probably thought was a legal loophole for tax avoidance, but actually they were just evading tax illegally.

FrankJH · 25 Jun 2017 at 17:55

and IF Barca was actually doing something totally illeagal both they and the players would be having major charges against them - not something relatively petty like 2 years in jail (where most in spain dont actually see inside a jail cell anyway)

Just for the record I have two direct family members who actually get paid for creating similar tax "vehicles" all aorund Europe and further aborad - so yes I do know what Im talking about whatever you want to think

div0 · 25 Jun 2017 at 18:32

If you know what you're talking about then you're not explaining it well at all. Tax 'vehicles' are a legal way of avoiding tax. People who get found guilty of tax evasion have committed a crime.

They may have thought that they were just using a legal avoidance scheme when they signed up, but clearly the evidence suggests they weren't. The punishment may be mitigated by the fact that they were poorly advised - I really can't comment on the specifics of another countries sentencing guidelines.

But simple fact is - if this was just about closing a loophole, then that would just stop people using that 'vehicle' in future. It wouldn't lead to convictions against people who'd used it in the past.

BaZ87 · 25 Jun 2017 at 21:54

To prevent Frank from digging his way through the core of the earth (and because it's boring) I think it's best that we end this conversation now.

ThestigGT999 · 4 Jul 2017 at 19:23

Virgin launches Manchester United bond

more info

sigma · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:47

What do we think about the season ahead? New signings aside, I hope Martial gets a good run, by all accounts he's been good in pre-season. Will Jose play Lukaku regardless? Even in matches where Rashford is better suited?

Hope the new signings settle in well, we seem to have quite a physical/tall spine in the team now and let's hope they gel quickly.

Highly doubt we'll win the league but you have to hope!

I'm going to try to go to more matches this season, got a ticket for the Wham match on Sunday, can't wait

Cold Fusion · 7 Aug 2017 at 13:52

I'd imagine he will play Lukaku up front on his own with Martial to his left and Mata/Miki to his right with Pogba and Hernandez behind. 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 variation like he did with Chelsea. I just hope Lukaku scores goals like he did last season.

Hopefully we can get a top 4 spot this year but its massively competitive

Rotty · 9 Aug 2017 at 12:54

Is this sleeve sponsor rumor genuine? and I though ours was bad

going to lead to a whole world of internet humour if it is

Shamikebab · 9 Aug 2017 at 13:18

I'd still take it over a gambling sponsor.

The Running Man · 9 Aug 2017 at 13:28

That new defender doesn't look much good:/

Rotty · 9 Aug 2017 at 13:55

Shamikebab said:
I'd still take it over a gambling sponsor.

seems to be quite a lot of them about

I'm sure our WU one will bring much Nigerian scammer humour

dacads · 9 Aug 2017 at 17:11

The Running Man said:
That new defender doesn't look much good:/

Give him a few games..

Trusty · 9 Aug 2017 at 18:00

The Running Man said:
That new defender doesn't look much good:/

He hasn't even played 10 competitive games for you yet..

The Running Man · 9 Aug 2017 at 18:20

Correct. Rashford hasn't played ten competitive games but didn't look totally incompetent

Shamikebab · 9 Aug 2017 at 19:47

If Nick had his way he'd sell every new signing within one month of joining. Remember when he said De Gea was a mistake and we should have signed Stekelenburg? And we all remember the N'Zogbia incident...

The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

The Manchester United Club Thread Sponsored by Comedy Central