The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**
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Caporegime
.....or "the American dream"
Yep, give a generation wealth that far exceeds their work or value and then watch as the house of cards collapses and everyone is looking for someone to blame for why times haven't just got better and better. Someone always pays.
Associate
I tried to make a stand and give my season tickets back in 2005.
When it came to the crunch I just could not do it, I have been going since I was around 12, I am now 46.
Its not just the football, its the mates that I meet up with and have a few beers with on a match day that made it even harder to walk away from.
I have made a little bit of a personal stand since then though, I have not spent a single penny inside the ground since that day.
I vowed not to give the Glazers any more than my match day ticket money and I have managed to stick to it.
It nearly kills me some days, when we have had a few hours around town on the ale and those around me are chomping on pies and hot dogs, then go for more beer at half time.
At least if they sell, I can knock this on the head lol
When it came to the crunch I just could not do it, I have been going since I was around 12, I am now 46.
Its not just the football, its the mates that I meet up with and have a few beers with on a match day that made it even harder to walk away from.
I have made a little bit of a personal stand since then though, I have not spent a single penny inside the ground since that day.
I vowed not to give the Glazers any more than my match day ticket money and I have managed to stick to it.
It nearly kills me some days, when we have had a few hours around town on the ale and those around me are chomping on pies and hot dogs, then go for more beer at half time.
At least if they sell, I can knock this on the head lol
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
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- 16,550
What's happened with Sanchez do you think?
Caporegime
Like matic, got older, lost that yard of pace that made him effective.
Have you even watched Matic lately? He's been very good and certainly isn't ineffective. Christ
Soldato
Sanchez needs to be sold asap! The wages he's on will be a sticking point!
He has been good, but we do need a more mobile (and experienced) DM to come in over the summer so we can save Matic's legs for big games- McTominay is good cover but would be worth getting more experience in that position with Matic ( I think anyway) only a year left on his contract...and Herrera still hasn't signed an ext either so is out of contract in a few months.Have you even watched Matic lately? He's been very good and certainly isn't ineffective. Christ
Utd would have to give away Sanchez and even then it would be nigh on impossible (unless he was one of the few football players willing to take a massive pay cut, which I cant see happening)
Caporegime
Have you even watched Matic lately? He's been very good and certainly isn't ineffective. Christ
The problem is that Matic is very much the same player he was under Mourinho. I don't think he was underperforming as such like many players. He simply isn't good when you are under the kosh and defending a lot. Hes good when you are dominating teams or they are generally on the back foot but against the very top teams he gets found out. He was constantly being asked to track runners and break up play in front of our back 4 under Mourinho and he was awful at it. Now hes still missing runners and missing tackles but the whole team is operating more smoothly and effectively and his errors are not so obvious or damaging to our results.
I think he is a good squad player but we should be looking for his replacement in the next year or so. There are higher priorities than DM at the moment but if we have any aspirations of fighting for the PL or CL we will need to replace him.
Given how long it takes a lot of foreign players to get used to the EPL, unless we buy from the Premiership I would say a DM is as imperative this summer as much as a centre half and right back (and even a right sided goal scorer)
We do make things a lot more difficult for ourselves by majority of build up play being left side of the attack, and while a decent rb would help with that I think we need a right winger as well
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 33,188
The only person being unprofessional was Mourinho. The 'troubled' Pogba turned up for training along with everyone else, smile on his face, ready to train and Mourinho decides to say something and start a fight which puts the entire squad in a bad mood for training.
Fans generally have dumb ideas about what makes up a professional player, he's posting on instagram, clearly he's not putting in 100% in training or trying hard in games, bull. When a manager screams at you for making forward passes that don't come off you stop making forward passes the same way if your boss screams at you for taking initiative you stop doing so. Mourinho's Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Chelsea again, when they fell apart it was offences that looked entirely afraid to be at all creative, who were being told don't make the runs, don't commit to support counters in numbers, stay back and don't misplace passes.
When the big name player seems to not be helping with goals after costing 90mil, fans get stupid about it, in reality he was being hampered by being told not to be creative, not to attack, not to burst forwards and the same went for many other players. Martial was just as 'bad', as was Rashford, and Lukaku. When given freedom and told hey, I want you to attack, I want you to express yourself, I want you to play as you play best then the entire offence started playing better. Now it might be 3 players flooding in to support a counter rather than 1 player and it opens up more options. Now Pogba doesn't wonder if he'll get shouted at every time he tries to pick out a throughball so he does it more, because more passes are going forward the players are making more runs, etc, etc.
The only person I ever saw acting unprofessionally was Mourinho, video's from training, his interviews where he crapped on players and absolved himself of all blame by stating he had league titles, etc.
Fans generally have dumb ideas about what makes up a professional player, he's posting on instagram, clearly he's not putting in 100% in training or trying hard in games, bull. When a manager screams at you for making forward passes that don't come off you stop making forward passes the same way if your boss screams at you for taking initiative you stop doing so. Mourinho's Utd, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Chelsea again, when they fell apart it was offences that looked entirely afraid to be at all creative, who were being told don't make the runs, don't commit to support counters in numbers, stay back and don't misplace passes.
When the big name player seems to not be helping with goals after costing 90mil, fans get stupid about it, in reality he was being hampered by being told not to be creative, not to attack, not to burst forwards and the same went for many other players. Martial was just as 'bad', as was Rashford, and Lukaku. When given freedom and told hey, I want you to attack, I want you to express yourself, I want you to play as you play best then the entire offence started playing better. Now it might be 3 players flooding in to support a counter rather than 1 player and it opens up more options. Now Pogba doesn't wonder if he'll get shouted at every time he tries to pick out a throughball so he does it more, because more passes are going forward the players are making more runs, etc, etc.
The only person I ever saw acting unprofessionally was Mourinho, video's from training, his interviews where he crapped on players and absolved himself of all blame by stating he had league titles, etc.
Excellent post as per usual @drunkenmaster. Trying to explain the above to mates is like banging my head against a brick wall.
This is completely wrong , Pogba wasn't putting in any effort in numerous games before JM left, just strolling around the pitch 1/2 the time
Even if they disagree with the manager , every player should be putting in 100% effort when he crosses that white line.
If you disagree with the above then you are blatantly ignoring the facts staring at you in the face (and there are plenty of well respected commentators who have said exactly the same)
Caporegime
You mean the facts like we were down the bottom of the running stats for three seasons, are you suggesting players downed tools in JM's first season?
Or perhaps it was just the style of football he employed. Nothing to do with effort.
Or perhaps it was just the style of football he employed. Nothing to do with effort.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 33,188
Firstly nothing you've said is a fact, it's an opinion that he was 'strolling around' 1/2 the time. For one thing most players walk much more often than they run or sprint on a pitch. Second, as Shami points out, the team ran a LOT less under Mourinho and for a long time. Mourinho clearly didn't want Pogba running forwards to support attacks. but when Mourinho started making a big target on Pogba's back by blaming him then players started focusing on his every second in the game, they saw him walking and get angry even though he didn't really change much. he was playing worse, this happened to firstly the entire squad and secondly that happens when players are both not happy, hate the boss, screamed at by the boss every time they do a pass he doesn't like and also getting called out in public for the performances Mourinho is demanding.
AS for respected commentators, respected commentators talk crap, constantly. AS I point out on here regularly, when they have an opinion you agree with, they are respected and know more, when they say something you disagree with they are useless and just chat crap. You can't have it both ways. Commentators, pundits, they constantly talk out of their behind, they are provably wrong time and time again.
Many of them insisted Mourinho would bring glory, was a brilliant manager and kept saying he was the man to fix it until he got fired. Others were saying he was completely the wrong manager before he even joined due to what problems utd have, what they need and what Mourinho provides.
Pogba wasn't intentionally playing poorly, he had his confidence drained, the entire offence was being told to not play the football they knew how to play but to stay back and defend while at the same time Mourinho relied on them to score and blamed them when they didn't. Pogba isnt' trying harder, he's simply being allowed to play his game, along with the entire offence so they are all playing much much better.
Pogba has done it since JM too, - and its not "focusing on individual moments " its even when he is strolling back because the opposition has taken possession and started a break and Pogba doesn't always bust a gut to get back - which EVER midfielder / defender should be doing, and to be honest even strikers should bust a gut to get back to their "defensive" position - even if that's set at the half way line.
Its not opinion its fact, it has happened repeatedly , he doesn't put in the equal amount of effort in every game.
If you watch a team consistently (which you obviously haven't) you can see when certain players aren't putting their all into the game and when they are. Its also evident from the amount of errors that Pogba has per game - when he is fully focused people don't run off the back of him, stupid flicks are cut down, he doesn't lose possession in stupid / dangerous places. .
I know offensive players have the licence to risk more to create chances etc, but this isn't the kind of errors Im talking about.
On his day he is completely unplayable - and sometimes Utd do get that PP, but all too often he can be a liability (in Utd's half ) - he tries too much, too hard, or hangs onto the ball 2 or 3 seconds too long when an easier pass was available but just gets ignored.
edit - unfortunately it looks like Herrera has indeed left (or agreed to leave) the club on a free, not an april fool (been rumbling on for months already), not helped by Sanchez being paid extortionate amounts and doing very little, but I also don't believe the club have been interested in keeping him even since Ole came in as caretaker. Personally think this will make the summer very difficult, already needed one midfielder even if Herrera stayed (to replace Matic) and I don't believe McTominay is ready to replace either, reasonable squad player but not a consistant starter for me. Huge mistake by the club imo
Its not opinion its fact, it has happened repeatedly , he doesn't put in the equal amount of effort in every game.
If you watch a team consistently (which you obviously haven't) you can see when certain players aren't putting their all into the game and when they are. Its also evident from the amount of errors that Pogba has per game - when he is fully focused people don't run off the back of him, stupid flicks are cut down, he doesn't lose possession in stupid / dangerous places. .
I know offensive players have the licence to risk more to create chances etc, but this isn't the kind of errors Im talking about.
On his day he is completely unplayable - and sometimes Utd do get that PP, but all too often he can be a liability (in Utd's half ) - he tries too much, too hard, or hangs onto the ball 2 or 3 seconds too long when an easier pass was available but just gets ignored.
edit - unfortunately it looks like Herrera has indeed left (or agreed to leave) the club on a free, not an april fool (been rumbling on for months already), not helped by Sanchez being paid extortionate amounts and doing very little, but I also don't believe the club have been interested in keeping him even since Ole came in as caretaker. Personally think this will make the summer very difficult, already needed one midfielder even if Herrera stayed (to replace Matic) and I don't believe McTominay is ready to replace either, reasonable squad player but not a consistant starter for me. Huge mistake by the club imo
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like Phelan being linked to it last week - found that to be a stretch too far also.
Some rumour of Scholes coming back in some capacity as well (not at DoF level admittedly) - just think its usual media games of linking anyone from Utd's past to the club.
Some rumour of Scholes coming back in some capacity as well (not at DoF level admittedly) - just think its usual media games of linking anyone from Utd's past to the club.