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[adam cool dude]

Rangnick was a total failure. A good manager will get the best out of what he is given. He did a worse job than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with the same players.

Why would you have faith in using him upstairs. You can blame the players for whatever you want but the sign of a good manager in any walk of life is to get the best out of what you have.

I am sure Klopp or Guardiola would have turned the season around. Maybe even Tuchel or Ancelotti.

I honestly believe people love a good conspiracy but the reality is Ragnick just wasn't very good and what else will he have to offer? They can either take on board what he thinks or not.

 

[BaZ87]

Why would you have faith in using him upstairs.

Because the role of a coach and that of a DoF or whatever he was going to be called is completely different and it's in that latter role that he's been most successful at.

Utd giving a coach/DoF who has a very clear way of playing a caretaker job with a group of players the complete opposite of how he wants to play was odd. The only way his appointment made sense was if he was going to follow through with the role upstairs and Utd were essentially writing off the end of this season but putting the building blocks in place for long term changes. To write off the end of the season and then not follow through with the long term changes is farcical.

 

[fez]

This would be worse than if it was the clubs call. At least if it's the clubs call you can hold onto the small chance that the club have now, after all those false dawns, decided on a long term strategy and that's without Ralf.

It might be a mutual decision with ETH bringing in the people he wants and RR not seeing much point in his position and the club agreeing but I am probably clutching at straws there.

Surely it's another shambles if the main reason for Ragnick was him coming in and sorting everything as he was a football man etc.

Instead you ended up with a crap manager for a few months and had a crap season lol

We've had a crap manager for the past 3 years. At least we had one that was willing to admit that the players and structure at the club was rotten.

There is no way he was brought in for anything more than filling a gap between Ole and the next manager and then moving upstairs. Nothing about his managerial record suggested he would be given the job long term. I think they thought it would go better than it has but then if they thought it was such a **** show on the player facing side they probably would have done something sooner to fix it.

Why knows honestly. Big mess.

 

[fez]

Rangnick was a total failure. A good manager will get the best out of what he is given. He did a worse job than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with the same players.

You confuse me. You consistently backed Ole, a man who added no value to the players he managed and only improved the side when he bought players. A man who spent ~£300m to build a group of malcontents with little chemistry or spine.

Why would you have faith in using him upstairs. You can blame the players for whatever you want but the sign of a good manager in any walk of life is to get the best out of what you have.

Because he wouldn't be managing the team at that point. DoF is far removed from coaching and management. Being a good manager has zero relevance to what he was supposed to be doing.

I am sure Klopp or Guardiola would have turned the season around. Maybe even Tuchel or Ancelotti.

All 4 of them would almost certainly have got us top 4. They are also arguably 4 of the best managers in the world right now. The only feasible option would have been Conte and he would have kicked the can down the road for 3 years at vast expense and probably won us a cup or maybe the EL and then left us in a similar state to now.

I honestly believe people love a good conspiracy but the reality is Ragnick just wasn't very good and what else will he have to offer? They can either take on board what he thinks or not.

I think hes a fine manager, I just don't think he is elite level or used to working with such entitled ***** who don't have even a shred of professionalism. Nowhere else has he worked where this would even be allowed to remotely happen.

He was a convenience hire up to a point. He filled a role they wanted to hire into and they needed an interim. He could do both.

 

[BaZ87]

It might be a mutual decision with ETH bringing in the people he wants and RR not seeing much point in his position and the club agreeing but I am probably clutching at straws there.

I think your other take, that Rangnick didn't think the job was worth the hassle is more likely than this and the only possible scenario where Utd don't come out of this looking completely stupid.

You don't give somebody a role upstairs and then move them on because the coach decides he doesn't fancy them. The whole point of his appointment was to help give the club some long term planning and consistency so that if and when ETH leaves, Utd aren't ripping things up and starting again with another coach with a different set of ideas.

 

[fez]

I do wonder if there will be a tell all at some point from one of the managers/people in the management area about how much of a mess it has been for the past 20 years or so.

 

[sigma]

I reckon Rangnick, who didn't seem to shy away from telling it as it is, probably told the management team that they're all part of the problem, coupled with a overrated squad lacking in professionalism. They probably didn't like to hear this nor his solutions.

I wonder how long ETH will last.

Everyone keeps banging on about finishing 2nd last season, do they forget that the usual teams underperformed and Bruno was on fire for us?

 

[BaZ87]

I do wonder if there will be a tell all at some point from one of the managers/people in the management area about how much of a mess it has been for the past 20 years or so.

Their payoffs will include confidentiality agreements preventing this from happening.

 

[fez]

Their payoffs will include confidentiality agreements preventing this from happening.

Yeah, I thought this would probably be the case. Someone would have cracked already if not.

Somewhere there is a shrink who knows a lot of **** about United

 

[adam cool dude]

Because the role of a coach and that of a DoF or whatever he was going to be called is completely different and it's in that latter role that he's been most successful at.

Utd giving a coach/DoF who has a very clear way of playing a caretaker job with a group of players the complete opposite of how he wants to play was odd. The only way his appointment made sense was if he was going to follow through with the role upstairs and Utd were essentially writing off the end of this season but putting the building blocks in place for long term changes. To write off the end of the season and then not follow through with the long term changes is farcical.

What makes you so sure he was 100% accountable for the success of RB in the German league? Apart from the fact they have a tonne of money and the German league is weak as runny eggs.

It is no different to what the class of 92 are doing with Salford and I would hardly call them masterminds of business and football.

It was very clear when Ole was sacked that there was no plan but at least a plan to go get their man in summer. Ragnick came in and McKenna left and Carrick did out of respect to Ole.

Maybe Ole did take the team as far as he could but maybe they should have used Carrick instead as interim till the end of the season as I think they thought they would just slip a new manager in and that would be it but they didn't expect the exodus they got.

Laugh at Ole all you want but our front three of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood outscored Liverpool's front three in the 19/20 season getting 60+ goals between them which any manager would dream of, we also got back to back champions League qualification, lost out on a Europa League after 22 penalties and got the unbeaten away premier League record from Arsenal. To go from that to where we are now in just 6 months is crazy.

Ragnick with all his "experience" was unable to get together a decent set of coaching staff and we got some old dude and Ted Lasso so it was dead from the start and I could feel it straight away when Carrick announced his departure after the Arsenal game.

There was something good at the core of this club for those two years and I enjoyed it while it lasted. At points we were able to challenge Liverpool and City in head to head matches but obviously something went wrong. The answer to that we will never know. Did the Europa League loss break the mentality? Was the signing of Ronaldo a mistake and caused unbalance? Everything that happened with Mason Greenwood and Martials loan left us toothless up front?

 

[Robbo]

I can’t even be bothered to go over all of this again.

Ole was a poor manager who got found out in the end.

Rangnick wasn’t much better for various reasons, he could have contributed as a consultant but that’s not happening now.

We’re just going to have to wait and see what happens, it’s mostly speculation at present.

 

[BaZ87]

What makes you so sure he was 100% accountable for the success of RB in the German league?

I didn't say he was 100% responsible for their success. He was however the man that sat at the top of the club and was responsible for setting out the football strategy and making sure the right people are in place to implement it so that Leipzig weren't just pouring their money down the toilet, as Utd often have done.

Who knows whether Rangnick would have been successful in that role at Utd, we've seen director of football type figures have huge success at one club and then fail elsewhere but whether it's Rangnick or not, Utd have been crying out for somebody to put in place a clear strategy to how they want the football side of the club to run for years.

 

[omnomnom]

What makes you so sure he was 100% accountable for the success of RB in the German league? Apart from the fact they have a tonne of money and the German league is weak as runny eggs.

It is no different to what the class of 92 are doing with Salford and I would hardly call them masterminds of business and football.

It was very clear when Ole was sacked that there was no plan but at least a plan to go get their man in summer. Ragnick came in and McKenna left and Carrick did out of respect to Ole.

Maybe Ole did take the team as far as he could but maybe they should have used Carrick instead as interim till the end of the season as I think they thought they would just slip a new manager in and that would be it but they didn't expect the exodus they got.

Laugh at Ole all you want but our front three of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood outscored Liverpool's front three in the 19/20 season getting 60+ goals between them which any manager would dream of, we also got back to back champions League qualification, lost out on a Europa League after 22 penalties and got the unbeaten away premier League record from Arsenal. To go from that to where we are now in just 6 months is crazy.

Ragnick with all his "experience" was unable to get together a decent set of coaching staff and we got some old dude and Ted Lasso so it was dead from the start and I could feel it straight away when Carrick announced his departure after the Arsenal game.

There was something good at the core of this club for those two years and I enjoyed it while it lasted. At points we were able to challenge Liverpool and City in head to head matches but obviously something went wrong. The answer to that we will never know. Did the Europa League loss break the mentality? Was the signing of Ronaldo a mistake and caused unbalance? Everything that happened with Mason Greenwood and Martials loan left us toothless up front?

In 19/20 Liverpool won the league and were winning it by a record margin and you're comparing front lines? 25% of those players you mentioned goals came in the cups. I mean 7 were in a competition we were too good to be in lmao.

They did not score more LEAGUE goals (which is the only fair metric) then Liverpools front three. You also got a ridiculous amount of penalties of which Rashford took a fair amount. That front three scored 10 compared to Liverpools 4.

Stop comparing them.

 

[adam cool dude]

I can’t even be bothered to go over all of this again.

Ole was a poor manager who got found out in the end.

Rangnick wasn’t much better for various reasons, he could have contributed as a consultant but that’s not happening now.

We’re just going to have to wait and see what happens, it’s mostly speculation at present.

I am not arguing over Ole. Merely pointing out that something was going right at the club and it has just all collapsed. There was year on year progressions whether you liked it or not. Every journo thought after our summer transfer window which on paper was fantastic ended up being such a disaster. It is our worst points total in over 40 years. It was a bigger collapse than the 13/14 season after SAF retired.

Rangnick was in charge of that. Now tell me why the board would want him still on for the future? His previous stuff building RB came in a super weak German league and a cup run with a team that got trounced 6-1 on aggregate by Fergie who was considered a dinosaur by then. I think initially they wanted him for that very reason to help structure the club and he would see us through to the summer but quickly he got found out and in that situation is better to cut and run than risk the future and becoming even worse.

 

[adam cool dude]

In 19/20 Liverpool won the league and were winning it by a record margin and you're comparing front lines? 25% of those players you mentioned goals came in the cups. I mean 7 were in a competition we were too good to be in lmao.

They did not score more LEAGUE goals (which is the only fair metric) then Liverpools front three. You also got a ridiculous amount of penalties of which Rashford took a fair amount. That front three scored 10 compared to Liverpools 4.

Stop comparing them.

Even if you look at just league goals your front three only scored 2 more goals in a season where you dominated with a far superior manager and a better team. You are missing my point entirely though as ever. United with the sum of its parts should be doing a lot better than what it is as over the past few seasons there had been clear progression which I was trying to point out.

Yes we fell off a huge cliff this year and I believe Rangick coming in is a huge part of that so keeping him on in an consultancy role doesn't make sense.

 

[CliffyG]

Ole was in charge until December this season. He was sacked as the decline had already happened.

 

[adam cool dude]

Ole was in charge until December this season. He was sacked as the decline had already happened.

Yes that is true and all the coaching staff left as well. What replaced it was just as bad or even worse. Ole has his excuse of being totally unexperienced and potentially out of his depth in that situation but Rangick was meant to be this godfather figure who would steady the ship. I was expecting a Gus Hiddink type figure who did it with Chelsea. Instead we got something far worse.

 

[Robbo]

I am not arguing over Ole. Merely pointing out that something was going right at the club and it has just all collapsed. There was year on year progressions whether you liked it or not. Every journo thought after our summer transfer window which on paper was fantastic ended up being such a disaster. It is our worst points total in over 40 years. It was a bigger collapse than the 13/14 season after SAF retired.

Rangnick was in charge of that. Now tell me why the board would want him still on for the future? His previous stuff building RB came in a super weak German league and a cup run with a team that got trounced 6-1 on aggregate by Fergie who was considered a dinosaur by then. I think initially they wanted him for that very reason to help structure the club and he would see us through to the summer but quickly he got found out and in that situation is better to cut and run than risk the future and becoming even worse.

Providing structure for the club is not the same as managing the team. Yes, from a coaching perspective Rangnick could have done better, but he can't force the players to like him, he tried and ultimately it didn't work out. He had many things against him and it would have been a difficult job for anyone.

That doesn't mean he's hopeless as a Sporting Director. It would be like replacing Jurgen Klopp with Michael Edwards and then complaining when he's not very good.

Now, unlike some I don't think this is all doom and gloom. Ten Hag asked for a significant say in transfer dealings and given our track record, that's not a bad thing in my view. We just have to hope the directors will listen to him and get the players he wants. That may not be a good long term plan, but I think the club has decided to go all in with Ten Hag, so we may as well give him the best chance we can.

 

[fez]

I am not arguing over Ole. Merely pointing out that something was going right at the club and it has just all collapsed. There was year on year progressions whether you liked it or not. Every journo thought after our summer transfer window which on paper was fantastic ended up being such a disaster. It is our worst points total in over 40 years. It was a bigger collapse than the 13/14 season after SAF retired.

So Ole spending nearly £300m to win the square root of FA was "something going right" after Mourinho won the League cup, Community Shield and EL in his time. The man whos best period was immediately after he took over from the Mourinho meltdown. Whos main talent seems to have been to keep the players happy and motivated by letting them get lazy and drunk on their own sense of self importance.

Rangnick was in charge of that. Now tell me why the board would want him still on for the future? His previous stuff building RB came in a super weak German league and a cup run with a team that got trounced 6-1 on aggregate by Fergie who was considered a dinosaur by then. I think initially they wanted him for that very reason to help structure the club and he would see us through to the summer but quickly he got found out and in that situation is better to cut and run than risk the future and becoming even worse.

Rangnick took over a complete mess of Oles making and had to deal with:

Rashford being in historically bad form
Cavani checking out almost completely
Shaw being injured for most of his time here.
Ronaldo forgetting how to score for month or more
Greenwood being found out to be a scumbag.
Martial going out on loan
McFred getting injured for a while.
Pogba being missing for large chunks of it.

All things considered it wasn't quite as much his fault as you might like to suggest here. We were in 8th place when he took over and finished 6th I think. He wasn't a good manager for us and thats probably fairly obvious in hindsight. We haven't played the sort of football he wants to play ever. He isn't a charismatic motivator who babysits the overpaid pillocks at clubs like United. He couldn't bring in the coaching staff he wanted because it was mid season.

Yes we fell off a huge cliff this year and I believe Rangick coming in is a huge part of that so keeping him on in an consultancy role doesn't make sense.

This is where we are all struggling. You genuinely think that Rangnick is a huge part of why we fell off a cliff? Not Ole. Not the utter mess he created during his time at United. Not the horrible culture and lack of fundamentals the team had. Not the embarrassingly bad levels of fitness our players have. Not the massive lack of professionalism they have displayed at every turn.

Yes that is true and all the coaching staff left as well. What replaced it was just as bad or even worse. Ole has his excuse of being totally unexperienced and potentially out of his depth in that situation but Rangick was meant to be this godfather figure who would steady the ship. I was expecting a Gus Hiddink type figure who did it with Chelsea. Instead we got something far worse.

Yes he was meant to steady the ship but he came in, inherited a mess of a dressing room which had no interest at all in changing or putting in a shift and he had to cobble together a coaching team from the available people which unsurprisingly, mid-season wasn't an all star cast.

 

[Robbo]

*snip*

Completely agree. I was going to add something along these lines, also remember Rangnick had to cobble together some inexperienced backroom staff at short notice as most were in other roles/unavailable.

I'm not sure how people are still trying to make out Ole was some sort of success. He had a long time, spent a lot of money, and ultimately moved the club backwards, winning nothing in the process. It's really that simple.