The Matrix 4

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Yeah but producers deal with the business aspects, the directors (Wachowski's) oversea creative decisions. Don't get me wrong I loved the original Matrix, it had flaws sure but still the best thing they have directed. Simulated reality stories have been around for ages.
 
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Yeah but producers deal with the business aspects, the directors (Wachowski's) oversea creative decisions. Don't get me wrong I loved the original Matrix, it had flaws sure but still the best thing they have directed. Simulated reality stories have been around for ages.

There is more to the original movie than that though - even the little things like the whole scene with them inside the wall and breaking out of it has lots of little subtle bits of symbology and play with metaphysics etc. going on (it isn't just a cool scene) - which might be a bit obscure at first - completely absent at that kind of depth in any Wachowski project since.

EDIT: And likewise the way the fight between Morpheus and Agent Smith takes time to develop the little details such as the agent using raw brutality and Morpheus improvising, etc. beyond just the superficial differences portrayed in most movies.
 
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Soldato
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I still refuse to believe that either of them were responsible for the substantive elements of the original movie, they might have leant their artistic direction to it but nothing they've produced since is of the same level.

the first movie they did “bound “ was really good iirc.

Who knows though. We tend to attribute a lot of the acclaim of movies to individual directors when the reality is probably that it’s the entire production team behind them that really make the movie and determine how good it is.

I agree with the comments about this feeling like a fan movie or made for TV movie. So many aspects of it are just substandard. Especially when compared to the original movies.
 
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V F

V F

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There is more to the original movie than that though - even the little things like the whole scene with them inside the wall and breaking out of it has lots of little subtle bits of symbology and play with metaphysics etc. going on (it isn't just a cool scene) - which might be a bit obscure at first - completely absent at that kind of depth in any Wachowski project since.

EDIT: And likewise the way the fight between Morpheus and Agent Smith takes time to develop the little details such as the agent using raw brutality and Morpheus improvising, etc. beyond just the superficial differences portrayed in most movies.

I remember watching the first Matrix and having that real sense of fear of the agents. Their appearance, their body language and how they spoke. This new agent Smith? What on earth is that?
 

V F

V F

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The original agents reminded me of how police officers used to be. They'd hear you out, give you a chance but if you resisted or messed with them, you'd be in deep doodoo.
 

TNA

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I remember watching the first Matrix and having that real sense of fear of the agents. Their appearance, their body language and how they spoke. This new agent Smith? What on earth is that?
Yep. New one was laughable. Both the scripting and actor.
 
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It just lacked the feel and suspense of the old ones. This just feels like a Marvel movie, nothing groundbreaking and a bit bland.

Wasn't expecting to see cropped, shaky camera fights in a Matrix movie either. They were famous for NOT doing that and being very well choreographed...

I'd like to know where all the good story writers went in the movie industry. Movies in the 2000s were so different than the past decade.

I think it was the writers strike which killed it, it never recovered from that. The 3rd Matrix was one of the last big movies before Hollywood ****** them over and many left.

It's similar with the games industry which is why most of the big releases now are just generic crap. When the industry started to get taken over by suits in the mid/late 00s a lot of people moved on, as it's stopped being about the art and all about profit. I was working in the industry at the time and saw it happen.
 
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Soldato
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The Matrix was mostly a rip off of Dark City. So many elements they took from it.
This isn't true. This happens a lot in the industry, a film is proposed to a studio and refused, but then it is stolen and changed.
Dark City and The Matrix were both produced at the same time, I personally think Dark city was a rip of quickly produced from the Matrix.

It happens a lot when studios get wind of other studios films and want to cash in. It's no coincidence that we have stuff like Antz and a Bugs life appearing at the same time (and no insect animations since)
Armeggodon and Deep impact, Despicable Me and Megamind, Friends with benefits and No string attached, etc etc
It's not one story copying another as each of the above examples were all released within a year or less of each other. You can't copy a story, act it out and produce and edit it in 6 to 8 months.

Dark City and the Matrix were being made at the same time, hence why they were able to use some of the same sets, since they were both being filmed in Australia.
 
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This isn't true. This happens a lot in the industry, a film is proposed to a studio and refused, but then it is stolen and changed.
Dark City and The Matrix were both produced at the same time, I personally think Dark city was a rip of quickly produced from the Matrix.

It happens a lot when studios get wind of other studios films and want to cash in. It's no coincidence that we have stuff like Antz and a Bugs life appearing at the same time (and no insect animations since)
Armeggodon and Deep impact, Despicable Me and Megamind, Friends with benefits and No string attached, etc etc
It's not one story copying another as each of the above examples were all released within a year or less of each other. You can't copy a story, act it out and produce and edit it in 6 to 8 months.

Dark City and the Matrix were being made at the same time, hence why they were able to use some of the same sets, since they were both being filmed in Australia.

The Matrix was cut and changed after the Wachowski's saw an early screening of Dark City apparently..
 

fez

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It's similar with the games industry which is why most of the big releases now are just generic crap. When the industry started to get taken over by suits in the mid/late 00s a lot of people moved on, as it's stopped being about the art and all about profit. I was working in the industry at the time and saw it happen.

The whole entertainment industry has been taken over by peoples whos sole concern is money and profits and as a result they are more worried about metrics than art. They are more worried about politics and hiring the "right" people based on their political ideologies. Gone are the days of people who are just good at what they do getting the best and biggest jobs.

Computer games and films are judged as much on their inclusiveness and politics as they are on their core fundamentals of being good artistically. Ironically, the most universally praised examples of films, tv and games are those that don't go down this route.

The truth is that its easier to say the right things, hire the right people and chuck out a crap film than it is to produce something good.
 
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The whole entertainment industry has been taken over by peoples whos sole concern is money and profits and as a result they are more worried about metrics than art. They are more worried about politics and hiring the "right" people based on their political ideologies. Gone are the days of people who are just good at what they do getting the best and biggest jobs.

Computer games and films are judged as much on their inclusiveness and politics as they are on their core fundamentals of being good artistically. Ironically, the most universally praised examples of films, tv and games are those that don't go down this route.

The truth is that its easier to say the right things, hire the right people and chuck out a crap film than it is to produce something good.

I don't really know what you're point is. By their very nature Hollywood and the AAA industry have to be as broad and inclusive as possible to make the most amount of money. Even then we're disregarding a large percentage of the product coming from both industries that DOESN'T pander. Regardless, you already said that the most universally praised material doesn't cater to everyone and does well regardless so what's the issue?

I don't really get Nashers point either. Who cares what AAA developers are doing so long as quality product is still coming from the industry in general, which it almost certainly is thanks to the prolific rise of the indie scene.
 
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I don't really know what you're point is. By their very nature Hollywood and the AAA industry have to be as broad and inclusive as possible to make the most amount of money. Even then we're disregarding a large percentage of the product coming from both industries that DOESN'T pander. Regardless, you already said that the most universally praised material doesn't cater to everyone and does well regardless so what's the issue?

I don't really get Nashers point either. Who cares what AAA developers are doing so long as quality product is still coming from the industry in general, which it almost certainly is thanks to the prolific rise of the indie scene.

But most of it is trash now especially the high budget stuff, maybe every 5 years we'll get something actually good or innovative from them.

The AAA developers used to raise the bar, but now they are the ones holding things back because they don't take any risks with new ideas and they buy out the successful small developers. So now they hold a lot of the IPs and patents, but don't use them and no one else can.
 
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Soldato
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But most of it is trash now especially the high budget stuff, maybe every 5 years we'll get something actually good from them.

Is it? I don't know. Depends what you like. So much of this sort of debate boils down to 'they're just not making things that I enjoy anymore'.
 
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Is it? I don't know. Depends what you like. So much of this sort of debate boils down to 'they're just not making things that I enjoy anymore'.

Well if your idea of a good product is a new COD every 6 months then fine, but it's been the same game for about the past 15 years. It peaked with the 2nd one.
 
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Well if your idea of a good product is a new COD every 6 months then fine, but it's been the same game for about the past 15 years. It peaked with the 2nd one.

Then play Battlefield. Or Battlefront. Or CS:GO. Or Hell Let Loose. Or TF2. Or Quake Champions. Or literally any other of the hundreds of varied shooters that exist as a product of AAA investiture ;)
 
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Then play Battlefield. Or Battlefront. Or CS:GO. Or Hell Let Loose. Or TF2. Or Quake Champions. Or literally any other of the hundreds of varied shooters that exist as a product of AAA investiture ;)

Except now they are all basically the same thing.

The modern arena shooters like Quake Champions just aren't as good as the old ones either and they put the focus on microtransactions rather than actual content. Usually you get no proper server software or mod support now either, so the game dies quickly.
 
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Is it? I don't know. Depends what you like. So much of this sort of debate boils down to 'they're just not making things that I enjoy anymore'.
nearly everything from the last 10 years is forgettable and most of the films that aren't like interstellar are near the start of the previous decade so pretty much an anomaly.


most modern movies are generic trash that rely on special effects to tell a story...

actors and dialogue is second place


what are the best movies of the decade ? 2011-2021? how many of them are before 2015? what's your list?

Expectations so low these days that "the tomorrow war" seemed like a solid 7/10 movie and probably one of the better movies of the last decade.....

how much further can we fall


all the new waves of actors too where are the good ones? whos selling out the box office these days? chris pratt? :cry:
 
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