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Yeah I agree you need to go for precision shot anyway, but I just don't agree that Black hammer is better then Ice breaker in 19 out of 20 situations.
 
Greboth said:
That is exactly why an LMG is better for PvP than rockets. In situations where you will loose your heavy like meeting someone else with heavy ammo or a super the rocket has a small advantage in that your kd is 0 against -1 with an LMG. The flipside is though when you don't get taken out you will get many more kills with an LMG than rockets.
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If you have heavy ammo, chances are at least one person on the other team has heavy ammo. Rockets win 1v1 conflicts more often than not when both have heavy ammo, meaning you can shut down the other teams machine gun user(s), which means more ammo for you and no kill streak for them.
 
I haven't had Ice Breaker yet.....but I'm not really bothered any more. BH is amazing in PvE, most strikes, both raids, nothing can beat it for DPS, nice and stable so with a little skill you can chain the precision hits, easily on Templar/Atheon and most strikes.

The biggest advantage of BH is that it doesn't use an Exotic slot, so you can have Gjallarhorn equipped as well. That's gotta be the ultimate PvE setup at the moment.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
I always aim for precision shots though when using any weapon apart from rocket launchers.

Hand Cannon - Precision shots
Sniper - Precision shots

also you can take your time in between shots, that HUGE ogre you have to kill where people hide behind the rock. I was hitting him in the sack, waiting for him to recover then hitting him again, then waiting for recover then hitting him for a third time. I got my ammo replenished even with the waiting a couple of seconds inbetween.

It's useful is a lot more situations, basically with enemy enemy that doesn't fly about like mad (wizards and witches) or has OP weapons with huge spash damage (nexus and cerberus vae).

I killed that big ogre in record time with black hammer, atheon and templar would be easy to precision shoot too.

I even go for precision shots with machine guns and auto rifles, they suppress the enemy as well as do more damage. Archon Priest was tore apart by black hammer from the cheese ledge.

You can honestly take your time you don't need to pop 3 shots off quickly. Don't take too long though obviously.

It also deals more damage than icebreaker. The worst thing is that it takes 5 seconds to replenish one bullet and you can only hold 6 max with the IB. If you have a ton of enemies your waiting for ammo or having to switch weapons.

I would rather have black hammer and either truth or mythoclaust than icebreaker in most situations.
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I can only think of a handful of situations where it has a distinct advantage. one or two of the bosses and the tanks/walkers. Rapidly sniping 3 precision headshots for the majority of the game is actually quite hard. You get enemies run out the way, run behind cover, change direction. Take more than 3-4 seconds between shots and the headshot bonus doesn't count. Shield damage doesn't count, the ammo perk is ruined by the extra hive damage perk (deals white damage to hive after headshots which interupts the headshot multiplier) so if you've activated it you've ruined it for anything hive related.

If you're in that sort of situation anyway then the icebreaker is the clear winner in that you can take a few more shots at the enemy then you'll get a bullet or two while you find out where the next has run off to.

I'd say the number needed to be flipped around to be honest, in that the icebreaker is much easier, similar base damage, has explosion damage for groups and generally more reliable for 19/20 situations.
 
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Psycho Sonny said:
It's also missing BLAST RADIUS.

The Truth will wipe out a whole squad with its blast radius, ghorn won't.

G'horn excels against one enemy, for every other situation your probably better off with a different launcher.

Templar and Atheon, etc is where it shows it's power.

I would like to see hunger of crota in action fully upgraded though because Hezen is amazing.
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I have no issues with the blast radius, and I don't find it that much different to when using Truth, unless you're talking Crucible where they'll be the odd situation where the slightly larger blast helps.

In crucible I think Truth edges it because of the aggressive tracking and proximity detonation (big blast radius really helps with this perk). If you get a lock you aren't really going to miss with it unless there are loads of obstacles in the way the target can get behind.

In PVE though, Gjallarhorn is king when it comes to rocket launchers, the damage output just can't be matched.
 
TL;DR: Basically what kris said, but I got interrupted while typing this out and his reply wasn't there when I started :p

I've been using Black Hammer for a while and I love it, but I can't agree that it's better than Ice Breaker in the majority of situations, let alone 19 out of 20!

Black Hammer is awesome for bosses and higher level enemies that don't like to jump around too much. There's a number of problems with it though:

1) If the enemy you're shooting moves around a lot or likes to hide, it can be very difficult to get 3 precision shots, which very much limits the use of its main perk. It's great for something like a Colossus, but not so great for a Wizard.
2) Not many enemies will survive 1-2 precision shots, meaning the 2nd/3rd shot has to hit one or more enemies to keep the chain going, or you lose the ammo.
3) There's several enemies in the game which don't have critical areas to hit, meaning you either need to use up ammo or switch weapons. e.g. Oracles, Crota Oversoul, Minotaurs etc.
4) The stupid bug that means once you've enabled the Hive damage perk, White Nail no longer works on Hive :(

All of these issues focus on the White Nail perk and so you could look at it and say that using up ammo isn't the be-all-and-end-all - the stability and damage output also makes Black Hammer a great weapon - but it's definitely the main perk and the major reason to use this weapon over others.

I would go so far as to say that Black Hammer is extremely useful in only 1 out of 5 situations you'll find yourself in, otherwise you'll purposely not use it, even in cases where a high-powered sniper would be of great benefit.

The current Nightfall is a great example of it's usefulness and limitations - destroys the tank, Colossus, and the boss, but difficult on Centurions, and White Nail is all but useless against the Phalanx or their boss variants. Ice Breaker is equally useful in all situations at the expense of (slightly) less damage and sometimes having to wait a few seconds for ammo to regen.
 
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mid_gen said:
and using your exotic slot ;)
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+1

The main reason my IB stays in the vault now is this. I'd rather run G'Horm/Truth/Vex/Suros than have IB using my exotic slot.

I agree that in general IB is the better weapon, but I don't think the difference is worth the exotic slot.
 
mid_gen said:
and using your exotic slot ;)
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Yeah, that's definitely a consideration. However, I find that Hunger of Crota is an able enough replacement for Gjallarhorn so I'll pick a setup based more around which primary and secondary I want to use. My 3 main setups just now are:

1) Fatebringer - Black Hammer - Gjallarhorn
2) Fatebringer - Ice Breaker - Hunger of Crota
3) MIDA Multi-Tool - Black Hammer - Hunger of Crota

I've got the Vex as well which I keep thinking I should use more but I'm always put off by the limited ammo reserve.
 
Ammo is a concern with Vex, but it really does rip mobs apart.. I've not fully upgraded mine (done all but the last damage upgrade) as I was hoping for them to upgrade it to 331 attack but don't think that is going to happen.

Hunger of Crota is the one weapon I still need (I've got 3 black hammers).

Really looking forward to Hard mode so we can get new primaries.
 
Mines currently:

saterienne rapier - fusion rifle (fast charge or murmur) - gjallahorn

saterienne rapier - ice breaker - zombie apocolypse (in whichever flavour element required)
 
What are the best shop-bought weapons? Havent really looked - though noticed the Vanquisher 8 isnt as good as the old one...

psu3d0 :cool:
 
Tibbz2 said:
Just got the MIDA Multi Tool from a reward, is it a good weapon vs other exotics?
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Yeah it's pretty smart. The agility boost is handy for the thrall section of crotas end raid. Don't go round looking for chests using the compass on the side though, it simply doesnt work for that purpose :p
 
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