The Police are racist

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Yawn.

I've said that I don't know how to make the police force more ethically diverse. I don't get paid to figure things like that out. Please pay attention.

I don't know the full ins and out of hows the police engage with local communities either, because again, I'm not an expert.

Proof of institutional racisim? Do your own googling, I doubt you'd read any links I was to go to the effort of finding.

 

[VIRII]

Yawn.

I've said that I don't know how to make the police force more ethically diverse. I don't get paid to figure things like that out. Please pay attention.

I don't know the full ins and out of hows the police engage with local communities either, because again, I'm not an expert.

Proof of institutional racisim? Do your own googling, I doubt you'd read any links I was to go to the effort of finding.

Yawn. So you're just pontificating about things that you do not know and whilst you claim to be against positive discrimination you think the police owe the ethnic minorities something or rather and have no idea how to achieve the outcomes that you think are worthwhile and you have the cheek to *yawn* at me.
Pathetic.

 

[cleanbluesky]

Well the sus laws caused race riots 26 years ago, so its at least as far back as that....

White people were subject to exactly the same laws, and there is no proof that they were used unevenly...

 

[cleanbluesky]

Proof of institutional racisim? Do your own googling, I doubt you'd read any links I was to go to the effort of finding.

Exactly, you're basing your opinion on an assumption. You assume the evidence is OUT THERE...

The thing about institutional racism was that it was coined by the McPherson report, although it seems that corruption may have been the reason that the Lawrence case fell apart rather than the nebulous idea of 'instituional racism' which is supposedly solved through anti-white racism. Also, one of the most significant individuals behind the McPherson report went on to accuse the CoE of also being 'institutionally racist', again without proof, while simultaneously accepting one of its highest positions.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Yawn. So you're just pontificating about things that you do not know and whilst you claim to be against positive discrimination you think the police owe the ethnic minorities something or rather and have no idea how to achieve the outcomes that you think are worthwhile and you have the cheek to *yawn* at me.
Pathetic.

I'm a consultant and programme manager in financial services; that's what i'm an expert at. I'm not a sociologist and I don't set race relations policy or recruitment policy for the police. I never have done and I doubt I ever will.

When it comes to this subject my interest is purely amature, rather than professional.

I reckon that you are in exactly the same boat, so there is no need to get on your high horse about me not knowing anything about the subject. In fact, given that you've not really offered anything to this debate other then sniping pettily at my posts and making me repeat myself repeatedly (hence my yawn) I'd suggest that you weren't really reading anything I wrote since your mind is already set and you don't actually want to discuss the subject.

CBS, I actualy started googling for some links and read a few, and then thought, "What the hell am I doing folloing this guys lead? I'd be wasting my time since his mind is set." That's why I didn't post any, not because I couldn't find them.

How about you find some sources stating that the police have not had an issue with racism historically?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

White people were subject to exactly the same laws, and there is no proof that they were used unevenly...

They were used unevenly and the proof comes form the social unrest that followed.
I have personally spoken to officers who've told me that they've treated ethnic minorities differently and were racist and thought nothing of it as it was the norm at the time. 20 years later they are gutted that they acted in such a way. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[cleanbluesky]

CBS, I actualy started googling for some links and read a few, and then thought, "What the hell am I doing folloing this guys lead? I'd be wasting my time since his mind is set." That's why I didn't post any, not because I couldn't find them.

You can't be bothered to look for evidence for your own opinions and you think my mind is set?

How about you find some sources stating that the police have not had an issue with racism historically?

I haven't yet expressed that they have not, I have so far expressed that there is no solid evidence that they are 'institutionally racist' and that it suits many people to believe this, hence continued assumption it is true.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

You can't be bothered to look for evidence for your own opinions and you think my mind is set?

I looked I found, I didn't post.

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

I haven't yet expressed that they have not, I have so far expressed that there is no solid evidence that they are 'institutionally racist' and that it suits many people to believe this, hence continued assumption it is true.

The McPherson report says they were. Bearing in mind the importance of the investigation and the ammount of money thrown at the man considered best qualified to undertake it, i reckon if he says that the police have been institutionally racist then he knows better than any of us!!

 

[Van_Dammesque]

make the effort to develop closer relationships with ethnic minorites in order to build their trust. This will aid the police in the prevention and detection of crime, so how can it be the wrong course of action?

The trouble is that you are (with the current racist policies) effectively burning bridges with the ethnic majority. Who is the most important in your pragmatic view of law enforcement?
How do we build bridges with the majority after this? Discriminate against the minorities?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

The trouble is that you are (with the current racist policies) effectively burning bridges with the ethnic majority. Who is the most important in your pragmatic view of law enforcement?
How do we build bridges with the majority after this? Discriminate against the minorities?

Why does eliminating a lack of trust between the police and ethnic minorities need to discriminate against the majority?

If I start targetting niche clients my multinational clients don't get the hump and go somewhere else so why should dealing with a minorty exclude a majority anywhere else?

 

[VIRII]

I reckon that you are in exactly the same boat, so there is no need to get on your high horse about me not knowing anything about the subject. In fact, given that you've not really offered anything to this debate other then sniping pettily at my posts and making me repeat myself repeatedly (hence my yawn) I'd suggest that you weren't really reading anything I wrote since your mind is already set and you don't actually want to discuss the subject.

Yet I wasn't *yawning* at you in an attempt to be rude was I?
You suggest that the police need to have more ethnic minority officers and say that you are not in favour of positive discrimination. That basically appears to summarise your entire opinion on the matter.
It is not "sniping" to probe the gaping void in your opinion as to how your "goal" can be met when you are against the use of positive discrimination.
If we rule out positive discrimination then you need to entertain other possibilities such as the minority groups themselves taking their share of responsibility for their own ingrained prejudice as opposed to lying the entire blame at the door of the police.

 

[VIRII]

Why does eliminating a lack of trust between the police and ethnic minorities need to discriminate against the majority?

If I start targetting niche clients my multinational clients don't get the hump and go somewhere else so why should dealing with a minorty exclude a majority anywhere else?

It would rather depend on HOW you go about "eliminating a lack of trust" which as you've previously stated you have no idea whatsoever how to achieve. The most common approach to such rhetoric in practice is positive discrimination, which of course results in a break down of relationships elsewhere.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Yet I wasn't *yawning* at you in an attempt to be rude was I?

No, you called me pathetic in an attempt to be rude.

You suggest that the police need to have more ethnic minority officers and say that you are not in favour of positive discrimination. That basically appears to summarise your entire opinion on the matter.
It is not "sniping" to probe the gaping void in your opinion as to how your "goal" can be met when you are against the use of positive discrimination.

That's another argument and one that I don't know the answer to. I started this discussion by stating that I feel the diversity of the police should reflect that of the general public and that if this were the case it would help them do their job.

If we rule out positive discrimination then you need to entertain other possibilities such as the minority groups themselves taking their share of responsibility for their own ingrained prejudice as opposed to lying the entire blame at the door of the police.

How do you get someone to overcome their ingrained prejudice without engaging with them and seeking to prove that their prejudice is unfounded?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

It would rather depend on HOW you go about "eliminating a lack of trust" which as you've previously stated you have no idea whatsoever how to achieve. The most common approach to such rhetoric in practice is positive discrimination, which of course results in a break down of relationships elsewhere.

Yes, positive discrimination is wrong. No, I don't know what to put in it's place. I don't see you offering alternatives either.

 

[VIRII]

No, you called me pathetic in an attempt to be rude.

Actually I stated that your yawning at me was pathetic.

How do you get someone to overcome their ingrained prejudice without engaging with them and seeking to prove that their prejudice is unfounded?

I would imagine not by pointing out that they are "different" and discriminating in thier favour as though they are otherwise incapable of getting the job.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I would imagine not by pointing out that they are "different" and discriminating in thier favour as though they are otherwise incapable of getting the job.

Yes, we've established that, and everyone agrees, in fact I don't think anyone disagreed with that in the first place.

How many times do I have to say it?

 

[VIRII]

Yes, positive discrimination is wrong. No, I don't know what to put in it's place. I don't see you offering alternatives either.

Nothing. The police have accepted the error of their ways and made real efforts to improve and change. The rest will simply take time. Positive discrimination devalues decent black officers as "only got in because of the positive discrimination" and undermines them.
What do we need to do now? Nothing at all. Apologies have been made, ongoing improvements are continuing. The rest will simply take time.

 

[VIRII]

Yes, we've established that, and everyone agrees, in fact I don't think anyone disagreed with that in the first place.

I don't think Chris Beans agrees actually

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

The police have accepted the error of their ways and made real efforts to improve and change. The rest will simply take time. Positive discrimination devlaues decent balck officers as "only got in because of the positive discrimination" and undermines them.

Yes, exactly.

Apologies have been made, ongoing improvements are continuing.

Is this not the police engaging with 'wronged' communities in order to improve relations which will hopefully see a natural balancing of the diversity of the force? Very good, a message that should be communicated as often as possible though as many means as possible to all communities.