The Police are racist

[Von Smallhausen]

While I am not arguing with your common sense approach, it has merely been assumed that the police should 'reflect' society. Also, why does it seem only certain aspects require 'reflecting', why only race and religion?

If a crime happens in a largely ethnic area, more so a serious crime then should it not be considered that say the Muslim community may open up as possible witnesses to a Muslim officer ? That initial bridge may be all that is needed.

I do think though, that cooperation is a 2 way street.

I think that there should be no barriers to stop ethnic candidates, but I still think that it is innapropriate to give any sort of encouragement to them alone.

Is it inapporopriate though cbs ? Is it wrong to appeal to ethnic minorities to consider the police as a career by networking methods etc as I mentioned above. The inappropriate thing would not be that in itself but to shift the goal posts and use positive discrimination where merit, solely merit is disregarded as we saw with Gloucstershire Police.

Spie, there are many police splinter groups if that is the right phrase. The Gay Police Association, Black and Asian Police Association etc. Some find it distasteful and unneccessary, including the people whose umbrellas it covers and some do not. That does include Police Federation for PCs' - Chief Inspectors' and ACPO which covers Commanders' in the Met and City of London forces to Chief Constables' and Commissioners'.

There are arguments raging about why there should be such groups and there are also counter-arguments.

As for broken nails, I can't comment on that but I would suggest that if a member of the public shouts at you and it is deemed unneccessary then perhaps a good old fashioned arrest might be the answer.

 

[cleanbluesky]

Is it inapporopriate though cbs ? Is it wrong to appeal to ethnic minorities to consider the police as a career by networking methods etc as I mentioned above. The inappropriate thing would not be that in itself but to shift the goal posts and use positive discrimination where merit, solely merit is disregarded as we saw with Gloucstershire Police.

On its own the practice is of little consequence, but it is a symptom of how many wish to address assumed 'racism' by creating the idea that being ethnic is somehow of more value.

 

[pyro]

"It is essential in a democratic policing environment to ensure that underrepresented groups are prioritised in our recruitment drives,"

Has it ever occured to this fine man that, perhaps, blacks and asians migh not all want to become cops? Nor do most of the lasses either.

 

[cleanbluesky]

Has it ever occured to this fine man that, perhaps, blacks and asians migh not all want to become cops? Nor do most of the lasses either.

Yes, I've heard that there are also issues with retention for ethnic officers... is committment not a vital aspect of the job?

 

[pyro]

Yes, I've heard that there are also issues with retention for ethnic officers... is committment not a vital aspect of the job?

Of course, but why can't the officials realise this?

 

[Von Smallhausen]

On its own the practice is of little consequence, but it is a symptom of how many wish to address assumed 'racism' by creating the idea that being ethnic is somehow of more value.

More value in certain circumstances as officers with different skills are of more value in appropriate circumstances and understanding a particular culture is one of them.

As Pyro says, if people of any race or religion do not wish to become cops then nobody forces them to and the ultimate decision to put pen to paper and apply is theirs.

As for retention problems, I am not aware of any but thats not to say I don't accept it and as for lasses becoming cops, or rather not, I am not aware of that but the same decision to apply is theirs.

 

[egt]

http://www.gay.police.uk/ - I wanted to find something comical on this site.

Maybe an FAQ section with questions like "what to do if a member of the public shouts at you" or "dealing with a broken nail at work" etc

Gay police

How are we supposed to respect a copper knowing that he takes the bobbies helmet?

 

[cleanbluesky]

More value in certain circumstances as officers with different skills are of more value in appropriate circumstances and understanding a particular culture is one of them.

Is there actually any evidence that this is the case? I am not being confrontational and I understand your position on this issue but I'm wondering whether this idea has been taken as given or whether there is any evidence?

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Is there actually any evidence that this is the case? I am not being confrontational and I understand your position on this issue but I'm wondering whether this idea has been taken as given or whether there is any evidence?

I don't think you are being confrontational.

As for what you ask, in my humble opinion I base it on evidence.

 

[VIRII]

Are you genuinely suggesting that people should only be policed by those of their gender, sexual orientation and race?
You can't nick me copper !
I'm bi-sexual, female and 3/4 chinese, as you're a white male you can't arrest me it would be homphobic and racist...

Erm, that's not what i said. People are and will be policed by whatever colour, race, sexualy orientated copper they come across.

Ahh ok so it is not a case of special race and religion coppers for special people then, fair enough, I must have misunderstood what you meant......

Then there's cultural and religious difficulties. Muslims for example, have very strict rules. There are cases where it is only appropriate for a muslim female victim to be spoken to by a muslim female officer.

Or maybe I didn't and you are proposing special coppers for special people. Just what country are we living in again?

The whole thing is about empathy and understanding. If it is representational then it will have empathy of the communities it polices and will understand them. This will breed less resentment and make the job of the police that much easier.

Ahh ... well I though it was about upholding BRITISH law .....

This all sounds touchy feely and PC, but seriously, it's simply practical. If the communities the police work in trust and respect them then they will be HUGELY more effective.

Really practical......... uh huh. Send in the gay officers it is a gay nightclub, send in the black officers it's a black area, send in the muslim oficers it is a muslim area.
Seriously impractical and if these groups can't have the same police as the rest of us then they shouldn't be here. A copper is a copper, end of story. The law applies equally to all. Policing is about upholding the law and not about pandering to different peoples races and religious beliefs. No wonder the police are so utterly useless if this is what is expected of them.

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Ahh ok so it is not a case of special race and religion coppers for special people then, fair enough, I must have misunderstood what you meant......

Or maybe I didn't and you are proposing special coppers for special people. Just what country are we living in again?

It's not about special coppers for special people. If the best person to deal with (for the most extreme example) a muslim rape victim is a straight white essex boy then that's who will be sent, and that's who will be the point of contact for the investigation.
However, what's wrong with sending a female muslim officer if that's who the victim will be more comfortable with?? It's not about giving people the choice of who they are policed by, it's about having the most effective resorces to be truely effective.

Ahh ... well I though it was about upholding BRITISH law .....

It is

Really practical......... uh huh. Send in the gay officers it is a gay nightclub, send in the black officers it's a black area, send in the muslim oficers it is a muslim area.
Seriously impractical and if these groups can't have the same police as the rest of us then they shouldn't be here. A copper is a copper, end of story.

Again, not what i'm saying. People should, and in my experience, do, view the police as one big group. Generally they don't descriminate. A copper is a copper. Obviously there are exceptions like i have mentioned above. But what i am getting at is that if the police are seen to be proportionate then a black youth from a rough area is more likely to trust the police as a whole and therefore be less eager to challenge them.

The law applies equally to all.

Correct, and if you do something wrong you will get pinched. no race or religion is more or less likely to be arrested after commiting crime.

Policing is about upholding the law and not about pandering to different peoples races and religious beliefs. No wonder the police are so utterly useless if this is what is expected of them.

The police aren't useless, the criminal justice system is useless. Totally different and a completely different thread.

 

[Smithy]

Maybe it is racism, but its not new. Its been happening for a long time that they will reject applicants by race, to meet government targets. Happens in the Fire Brigade also.

 

[VIRII]

It's not about special coppers for special people. If the best person to deal with (for the most extreme example) a muslim rape victim is a straight white essex boy then that's who will be sent, and that's who will be the point of contact for the investigation.
However, what's wrong with sending a female muslim officer if that's who the victim will be more comfortable with?? It's not about giving people the choice of who they are policed by, it's about having the most effective resorces to be truely effective.

It is not about special coppers for special people it is about special coppers for special people. Muslim female coppers for muslims females, black youth coppers for balck youths..... come on make your mind up...

A copper is a copper. .

Correct.

Obviously there are exceptions like i have mentioned above.

No, there are not exceptions of special religious police for special religious people. Or special colours for special colours.

Correct, and if you do something wrong you will get pinched. no race or religion is more or less likely to be arrested after commiting crime.

But only by the appropriate sex and race and religion copper right.

The police aren't useless, the criminal justice system is useless. Totally different and a completely different thread.

Really. I guess that is why violent crime is so high, because the police are so effective.....

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

VIRII, you're twisting the argument and you know it.

This isn't about having a segregated police force to deal with racially / sexually segregated crimes. It's about helping the police by giving them access to a wider range of cultural backgrounds with which to build better relationships with the community as a whole, and if required with specific individuals.

Not all victims of crime are hard as nails keyboard warriors like everyone on this board, many of them are quite the opposite and need every bit of help they can get to overcome their fears and go though with a prosecution. If speaking to an officer who they can relate to will help that process then good.

The method that has been used in this case though is clumsy.

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

It is not about special coppers for special people it is about special coppers for special people. Muslim female coppers for muslims females, black youth coppers for balck youths..... come on make your mind up...

Dude, you're gonna have to read what i write or this will just go round in circles. People will be policed by who they are policed by and they do not get a choice in that. However, if a female mulim copper would be more appropriate and effective then surely it's a good thing to have that availible. It is about having the most effective resources for the job.

Correct.

Thanks ever so much

No, there are not exceptions of special religious police for special religious people. Or special colours for special colours.

But only by the appropriate sex and race and religion copper right.

No, again, not what i'm saying. I'm talking about victim care, points of contact, investigatory, plain clothes/undercover work etc. Certain races or religions will be more effective than a white essex boy because either the victims or communities will be more open and trusting towards them, or they may understand better what they are investigating or in the case of plain clothes/undercover simply that they look the part.
You seem to have taken my argument to mean that only a black cop can arrest a black person, etc. Not at all the case. The VAST majority of arrests come from responce teams reacting to 999 calls and as such any officer of any sex, colour, religion may turn up and they are ALL going to take the appropriate action regardless.

Really. I guess that is why violent crime is so high, because the police are so effective.....

Start the thread mate. I could moan about the CJS untill the cows come home!!

 

[VIRII]

VIRII, you're twisting the argument and you know it.

This isn't about having a segregated police force to deal with racially / sexually segregated crimes. It's about helping the police by giving them access to a wider range of cultural backgrounds with which to build better relationships with the community as a whole, and if required with specific individuals.

I'm not twisting anything at all simply quoting contradictory posts from a poster.
Your suggestion is that the police need to be seen as racially and culturally diverse to effectively police the UK because so many people living here now have not intergrated.
That is pandering to people and encouraging segregation which is the root cause of so much tension rather than actually tackling the problem of people refusing to intergrate.
If people of "minority A" do not feel that the police represents them because they can't speak English, aren't white and couldn't give damn about the UK apart from the free house and benefits cheques then why the hell should we waste money turning down good candidates to appear more sympathetic to people who are so undeserving to begin with.

There is no need for discrimination at any level for any reason. It is not the police that have an issue it is (according to your posts and chrisbeans posts) the public who feel unrepresented because they refuse to become part fo the wider group. Nothing positive is gained from creating further division and further enabling segregation.

 

[VIRII]

Dude, you're gonna have to read what i write or this will just go round in circles. People will be policed by who they are policed by and they do not get a choice in that. However, if a female mulim copper would be more appropriate and effective then surely it's a good thing to have that availible. It is about having the most effective resources for the job.

"People will be policed by who they are policed by and not get a choice in that" directly contradicts "However, if a female mulim copper would be more appropriate and effective then surely it's a good thing to have that availible."

So no it won't be a good thing because the law is impartial and the same level of service is available to all. The law doesn't discriminate on basis of sex and race or religion so neither should those in the employ of the law. If a white copper is good enough for me then that same white copper is good enough for a muslim female, if she doesn't agree then she's in the wrong country.

No, again, not what i'm saying. I'm talking about victim care, points of contact, investigatory, plain clothes/undercover work etc. Certain races or religions will be more effective than a white essex boy because either the victims or communities will be more open and trusting towards them, or they may understand better what they are investigating or in the case of plain clothes/undercover simply that they look the part.

Communities will be more open and trsuting towards them (because the coppers aren't white......)
Why are you tolerating this racism from minorities?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

stuff

Hello, perhaps we should start again, because you appear to be ignoring the parts of my post that you want to.

Lets pretend that you were walking home from the pub, across Hyde Park in Leeds and you get brutally ass raped by six 7 foot tall 200 pound black men. You decide to report it and you are assigned an officer to interview you and record as much detail as possible.

Would you prefer option a) a caucasian bloke from sarf London, b) a 7 foot 200 pound black man with a Leeds accent, c) a hindi woman from Bradford or d) some bird who looks like Claudia Schiffer did 10 years ago.

Bear in mind that you've just been relentlessly buggered senseless and you might be a little bit emotionally fragile and reluctant to open up.

Obviously I'm exagerrating, because you don't seem to understand simple descriptions, but this is the kind of situation that I'm say requires a need for sensitivity and knowledge about the victims and the perpetrators background and henve a need for the police to reflect the divesity of our country.

It's not a perfect world and in some areas there is a lack of integration so the police need to do everything they can to overcome that. Reinforcing historical stereotypes for a racist white only police force will not do that.

 

[reflex]

Right too. Keep them whities out of the forces. They all look the same.

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

"People will be policed by who they are policed by and not get a choice in that" directly contradicts "However, if a female mulim copper would be more appropriate and effective then surely it's a good thing to have that availible."

So no it won't be a good thing because the law is impartial and the same level of service is available to all. The law doesn't discriminate on basis of sex and race or religion so neither should those in the employ of the law. If a white copper is good enough for me then that same white copper is good enough for a muslim female, if she doesn't agree then she's in the wrong country.

What's it got to do with the law?? If a female muslim victim will give more information to a femaqle muslim officer, therefore making the chances of a successful arrest and conviction higher then surely that's a good thing. No?
This is about the effectiveness of a police force, not about treating criminals differently.

Communities will be more open and trsuting towards them (because the coppers aren't white......)
Why are you tolerating this racism from minorities?

Whether it is racism or based on past experience is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with my argument. The fact is that there are communities here who do not trust the police and they need to be policed. If a diverse force makes policing them more efficient and effective then we need a more diverse force.