The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

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jas72 said:
Surprising that there is no urgency from SFL, SPL regarding this whole problem.

They announced liquidation on 12th June and it was formally notified on 14th June it takes nearly 4 weeks for the SPL teams to accept or not the SPL share back to Rangers. Couldn't they do this faster ?

We already know about SFL's proposal for Div 1 status for more than 1 week now yet surprisingly we don't know where, when or who will meet to decide this.

The league starts in under 5 weeks time. European games start before that.

Are they going to accept Rangers or play 1 league with 11/9 teams in it.

Also Dundee or Dunfermline when will that be decided do we have a date on this? Also who decides it? SPL, SFL, SPL board, SFL executive?

What a mess and a snail's pace of action on sorting it out.
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Nothing they do/dont do surprises me anymore.
 
Yes, the whole lot of them seem completely unable to make any sort of decision. Time is very much running out, I don't think rangers even have any sort of squad yet. Players will want to know what div they will be playing in and what sort of money they will be getting before they sign up. It's all looking awfy dodgy. Has the transfer window opened yet? Will Rangers be shopping for players? Are they allowed to? Has Mccoist got ANY budget for players?
 
At least the Newco issue has brought all fans together with the same opinion..the SFA\SPL and to a lesser extent the SFL are ineffective as ruling bodies.

So the SPL are going to vote no to Newco in 2days. This meeting has taken 14days since the application was entered as per the rules. Does the SFL have a similar rule? So if Newco apply on the 4th July to get membership of the SFL, does it take 2 weeks for all SFL clubs to get together and vote?

If they vote yes, will the division Newco are playing in be decided then? If not, how long after the initial meeting?

It wouldnt surprise me if the domestic football season starts later then planned
 
Shambles that they've known of this possibility since 14th Feb :eek: in all seriousness and yet had no contingency plan in place.

My Tuesday night kick around with the lads has more plan B's than supposedly serious football organisations.

Do the rules state that the clubs must wait 2 weeks or do they simply state the clubs have 2 weeks to decide? Couldn't they have already sped up the decision making process or is there still an undecided club (Celtic?)
 
McMav said:
And I have to laugh at people saying they are trying to help Rangers by putting them in Div 1. I cry ****** to that they are trying to help themselves as they know after this season Sky will be gone and they need Rangers back to keep any kind of deal in place. This has nothing to do with helping Rangers nothing at all.
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Yeah your right, they are all pooing themselves but its a mutual benefit really, it doesnt do Rangers any good to be out of the SPL for 3 years, it doesnt do the SPL any good - the problem is the whole situation is so messed up its a no win situation no matter what happens.
 
Only because they didn't write any of this down in advance and even worse faced with the prospect since Feb they buried their heads in the sand preferring to concentrate on fining Rangers than sorting out the potential disaster that's now unfolding.
 
I dont think they concentrated on fining Rangers, so far Rangers have only been fined once? Is that right?

They did stick their head in the sand, everyone knew the CVA was never going to get agreed in a million years but Doncaster and co played the party line that it would rather than actually anticipating what might happen if it didnt.
 
Prolly because they didn't really believe that Rangers would end up in the blender. More thought on punishing them once they came out of administration rather than "what ifs and maybes". But yeah, definaty no contingency planning whatsoever.
 
Metalface Mark said:
Yeah your right, they are all pooing themselves but its a mutual benefit really, it doesnt do Rangers any good to be out of the SPL for 3 years, it doesnt do the SPL any good - the problem is the whole situation is so messed up its a no win situation no matter what happens.
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Yes but they are not doing it for rangers. Let's get that fact straight. They have messed up big time and they know it. I wonder how many feel foolish at rushing out no statements now lol.
 
Metalface Mark said:
I dont think they concentrated on fining Rangers, so far Rangers have only been fined once? Is that right?

They did stick their head in the sand, everyone knew the CVA was never going to get agreed in a million years but Doncaster and co played the party line that it would rather than actually anticipating what might happen if it didnt.
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they also knew that whyte wasnt paying tax or national insurance, months before rangers went into admin.(well the sfa knew so i would imagine the spl would as well)




If SPL & SFL kick Gers out of football they will kill our game

By jim Traynor on Jul 2, 12 07:25 AM in



THE shape of things to come will be decided by close of play Wednesday. We should know by then if Scottish football has been big enough to edge back from the brink.


For months now there has been a savagery. The game has been ripping itself apart all in the name of fair play. Or was it sporting integrity?

Forgive me, the reasons for the crisis that threatens to destroy Scottish football have been lost somewhere in the lust to tear and shred one club. It's as though a century of hatred and probably jealousy have erupted.

And the handful of reasoned souls left in the game are fighting a losing battle to cap the flow.

The trouble is too many men with influence have been working not for the good of the game but to selfish agendas. They've done bad things in the name of morality.

They've abused their privileged positions and if there was any decency left in the sleazy, tacky football world they inhabit they would not be allowed inside Hampden this or any other week.

The dishonourable posing as protectors of the game's integrity by making up laws and punishments as they go along.

By arguing and pressing for more severe punishments and demanding that Rangers newco be stripped of titles and trophies won in the EBT years by another business entirely, they are inflaming and prolonging an agonisingly painful and damaging period. Anyone who believes that stripping the old Rangers of baubles will help solve this meltdown should be ignored, pushed aside because we are way beyond bragging rights.

We, Scottish football, are on the brink of total collapse.

Those who are consumed by petty matters and the settling of old, ancient scores have made it harder to find the solution, the compromise agreement that's badly needed.

One day the truth about the subterfuge, deception, and downright spitefulness used to prolong this saga might be told but right now those who are trying to save what is left of the game need to be given space.

And hopefully the right and sensible decisions will be made when the SFL and SPL meet tomorrow and Wednesday respectively. Everything, the game's fate and Rangers' chances of survival never mind revival, depends on these leagues of gentlemen, if of course they do meet tomorrow.

The situation is critical yet it seems we have two clubs threatening to block tomorrow's meeting. Stenhousemuir and Alloa have an objection. God help us.

Hopefully the meetings will go ahead and if honesty and common sense prevail we might just begin to emerge from the darkness and see clearly who is working for the game and who is working for themselves.

We might also notice that in our rabid rush to condemn and stone Rangers we have stumbled to the very precipice of catastrophe.

Another misguided step or irrational utterance and Scottish football will be in total free fall so tomorrow the SFL must do one of two things.

Either they decide to let Rangers newco - who already know they don't have the support of enough SPL clubs to get the share that would let them begin again at the top - kick off in the First Division or the way is cleared for them to start in the bottom tier.

But research has shown the game will lose £16million if Rangers are dumped in the Third Division and frankly that would be too great a loss to an already impoverished business.

Supporters, of course, are entitled to be heard but the question is this: Are fans - forget the ones who can't see beyond their own hatred - willing to see what they believe to be justice done no matter the cost or consequences?

What if their justice means Scottish football would be reduced to a truly moribund state that would make recovery impossible?

What if their idea of fair play meant our game would be forever locked out of the big boys' playground?

Morals and integrity are fine but we must all be sure we can cope with the fall out, which would be considerable.

Clubs will cut right back on numbers as we're already seeing with Hibernian who have just paid off Pat Fenlon's deputy Billy Brown.

Players and wages will be next, although the first real casualty is more likely to be youth development.

Mark my words, clubs are already being squeezed by their banks who have seen Lloyds get out with all of their money back from Rangers. The other lenders also want shot of their football clients and they'll be imposing tougher repayment plans on clubs, who will use these demands as excuses to make swingeing cuts on their budgets.

If they are asked to reduce spending by £300,000 a year they'll make it £600,000 and blame it all on Rangers.

But even by making savage cuts, a number of clubs will still go bust. This will be the true price of sporting integrity.

And when the doors are being padlocked let's have no wailing or tears because too many clubs saw Rangers' insolvency as an opportunity to promote their own agendas.

Yet what good has that done any of them, apart from allowing them to invade the moral high ground for a short while. Now, though, as they hobble down having broken their toes through kicking Rangers they are suddenly confronted with reality.

They have the power to deny this new club any chance of life but they'll be condemning themselves to a miserable, empty future. Without the millions a healthy Rangers and their fans help generate, Scottish football will decline rapidly. All credibility at home and abroad will be lost.

If this is what we wish then fine, deny Rangers an SPL share on Wednesday and SFA membership when the Appellate Tribunal sits again to decide a punishment acceptable in the eyes of the real law. If this is what upholding fair play means then let's go for it.

Let's take decisions tomorrow and the next day that will chime with whatever our notions of integrity are and kill the game.

After all, we can't put a price on justice, especially in football where justice is something to be kicked around without finesse or direction.

Of course justice should be about fairness and handing down punishments that reflect the nature of crimes committed. It should always be about observing the law according to the rules and principles written down. But that's the problem with applying justice in a morally bankrupt game.

Nothing seems to be written down. If it is there in black and white no one can understand it.

The SFL have called in lawyers to make sense of their own articles ahead of tomorrow's meetings and, of course, the SFA spent a couple of years revamping their own codes, leaning heavily on the finest legal minds. Yet, when a transfer ban on Rangers was imposed it was kicked out in Edinburgh's Court of Session.

It's a grotesque farce and one club chairman had to remove himself from the entire business yesterday. He had to plod along a west-coast beach in the wind and rain to try and clear his head.

The game is pulling itself apart because some want to settle old scores with Rangers while others strive only to make the most of the problems and strengthen their own positions.

Okay, but what's the point in being powerful within a game that will soon have no real significance beyond its own boundaries?

But here are a few questions those 'just' men should ask themselves as they file into their meeting rooms on Hampden's sixth floor over the next couple of days:

Is losing all credibility, standing in the game, SFA licence, SPL share and being treated with the utmost contempt not punishment enough?

No?

Then ask yourselves this:

Is going out of business, struggling to emerge as a newco without fan support and being banned from playing in Europe for three years and being branded pariahs not punishment enough?

If the answer is still no then there is no justice.

And there is no hope. The game, and not just Rangers, will be doomed.
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http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/if-spl-sfl-kick-gers-out-of-fo.html
 
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All sound reasoning but is it not moving away from the initial issue? Lets say it had been St Mirren in liquidation would there be such an effort from the governing bodies to reinstate a newco St Mirren in the top tier?
 
That is an incredibly jaded, self centred and bias point of view. Does the whole of Scottish football really hinge on one team (albeit one of the biggest fish in the pond)? I very much doubt the entire house of cards will come falling down if Rangers start again at the bottom.
If finances all round really are that perilous then maybe it should.
 
Traynors article is ridiculous and completely contradicts what he said last week, he's terrified for his living and has been an absolute joke the whole time Rangers have been in administration but ramped it up since liquidation.

There should be heads rolling at the BBC after this, Traynor being the first to go.
 
chameleon said:
That is an incredibly jaded, self centred and bias point of view. Does the whole of Scottish football really hinge on one team (albeit one of the biggest fish in the pond)? I very much doubt the entire house of cards will come falling down if Rangers start again at the bottom.
If finances all round really are that perilous then maybe it should.
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No it hinges on two financially both are needed. But as it stand the house of cards is indeed about to collapse. That will be Rangers fault as well no doubt.
 
Supporters, of course, are entitled to be heard but the question is this: Are fans - forget the ones who can't see beyond their own hatred - willing to see what they believe to be justice done no matter the cost or consequences?
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has he been reading this thread :) but its still a very good question,well are you?
 
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lordfletch said:
http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/if-spl-sfl-kick-gers-out-of-fo.html
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So he's saying that effectively justice should be weighed against the cost and if the cost is too great then there should be no justice or perhaps a much diminished form of justice. It's a viewpoint certainly but do we really want a sport where your punishment depends on your size/impact on the game? Essentially if you're big enough then almost anything goes?

I'm not sure what is a fair punishment here and I do feel sorry for many Rangers fans who through no fault of their own are watching their team struggle but at the same time I'd expect to see Rangers treated in the same way as any other club that found themselves in administration - no more and no less. If that means the third division and building again from there then that's what should happen, if it means that the rest of Scottish football will collapse without Rangers then I'm not convinced that it's particularly worth saving.
 
semi-pro waster said:
So he's saying that effectively justice should be weighed against the cost and if the cost is too great then there should be no justice or perhaps a much diminished form of justice. It's a viewpoint certainly but do we really want a sport where your punishment depends on your size/impact on the game? Essentially if you're big enough then almost anything goes?.
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this is not unique in world football, though im not saying it makes it right.(and has happened in scotland, the aberdeen/falkirk relegation farce)

I'm not sure what is a fair punishment here and I do feel sorry for many Rangers fans who through no fault of their own are watching their team struggle but at the same time I'd expect to see Rangers treated in the same way as any other club that found themselves in administration - no more and no less. If that means the third division and building again from there then that's what should happen, if it means that the rest of Scottish football will collapse without Rangers then I'm not convinced that it's particularly worth saving
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there seems to be a perception that rangers are being treated differently in some way to benefit rangers, thats not true, the proposals are only there to benifit the other spl clubs, get that cash cow to the milking stall !
 
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