The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

[McRod]

CVA

I just wanted to explain clearly for McRod and others what a CVA is.

This is where a company agrees to pay a portion of it debts to its creditors. The portion left over is wiped away and the company continues.

Each creditor is allowed to vote on the CVA with a number of votes proportional to its debt.

For example if Rangers had a total debt of £100m and HMRC were owed 80% of that money they HMRC would have 80% of the vote.

The Rangers CVA proposal as I understand it is for £8.5m to be paid to creditors. The creditors will vote on whether to accept that or not. They will gauge whether they would receive more money from liquidating the club.

If the creditors accept the £8.5m then the club exits the CVA debt free. The £91.5m in this example is simply written off.

Let me try to explain to you something you`re not quite grasping.

CVA means 8.5m to creditors.

Liquidation/Newco means nothing. The ground and all assets and not owned by Rangers FC Ltd so therefor the pence the pound of liquidation yeilds very little tothe creditors.

This ridiculous transfer embargo threatens future income and it has already scared of Bill Miller. Further sanctions could similiarly scare possible future investors.

Can you now understand why we want to at least attempt to repay something rather than nothing.

I`m not sure whats hard to understand about that?

 

[McRod]

There was a hilarious post on Rangers Media forum the other day where they were comparing themselves to Jews during WW2 and the suffragettes.

Actually a quick poll, one of the biggest threats Rangers fans are suggesting is boycotting your club, as a fan of other SPL clubs, would this make you more or less likely to goto those games?

I at the moment have not renewed my season ticket, I wont until I know about the Newco if it happens, if Rangers are dealt with reasonably and fairly, then Ill renew, but I know it will cost me extra as the deadline in the day of the meeting, if Rangers are allowed back in to the SPL as a newco I wont renew my ticket and will refrain from games with them in it, It may be enough to keep me away from Scottish football altogether, I just hope our clubs vote correctly.

Why not go and follow Junior football where money has very little impact?. St Mirren won't miss youre season ticket money i`m sure.

 

[Metalface Mark]

It`s commendable that St Mirren are solvent but that "we're alright jack" attitude won't help address the debt of the other struggling spl clubs.

St Mirren arer hardly going to sell out grounds. Unless you get to the odd cup final when the glory hunters among you come out the closet.

The other clubs will be fine, its all a ruse by Rangers fans and the dependant media to suggest that Sky will drop the deal if Rangers are not in it, there would be a deal on the table and it wouldnt make much difference, the increased competition in any case would also make up whatever shortfall might occur.

Its not really that we cant afford to lose Rangers from the league, its more that we cant afford not to have them punished fairly or sporting integrity goes out the window.

We dont need to sell out grounds, we have a hardcore support of between 3000-4000 which is enough to sustain us, we have bigger local games like Kilmarnock who bring as many to give a similar crowd when Rangers and Celtic come to visit, and the best supported team this year was Hearts in the cup quarter final replay, place was crammed.

As for glory hunters, I dont really think anyone who has a pick of local clubs coming from Blantyre should be commenting on that one, eh

 

[McRod]

You quite frankly embarrassing to suggest that Rangers shouldn't be punished and it's all just one big conspiracy by Rangers haters.

Once again, you post complete and utter irrelevent points to my question.

Do you want to see us remain on our knees for your own pleasure or do you want to see us get back on our feet, run properly, and contribute to the treasury?

Must be quite a difficult question to answer for an average Rangers hater.

 

[Jokester]

Once again, you post complete and utter irrelevent points to my question.

Do you want to see us remain on our knees for your own pleasure or do you want to see us get back on our feet, run properly, and contribute to the treasury?

Must be quite a difficult question to answer for an average Rangers hater.

I have no problem with Rangers getting back on their feet - but only if they are punished for all their rule breaking. Anything less and the entire credibility of the SPL goes out the window.

And quit with the hater stuff it's quite sad.

And no I'm not a Celtic fan before anyone starts.

/frothy bile

Edit: Who owns Ibrox, I thought it was Rangers themselves who are in turn owned by one of Whyte's companies?

 

[spudbynight]

Let me try to explain to you something you`re not quite grasping.

CVA means 8.5m to creditors.

Liquidation/Newco means nothing. The ground and all assets and not owned by Rangers FC Ltd so therefor the pence the pound of liquidation yeilds very little tothe creditors.

This ridiculous transfer embargo threatens future income and it has already scared of Bill Miller. Further sanctions could similiarly scare possible future investors.

Can you now understand why we want to at least attempt to repay something rather than nothing.

I`m not sure whats hard to understand about that?

You said that Rangers needed to be allowed to recover so they could repay what they owe. That doesn't even make sense.

In fact most of what you are posting makes no sense.

 

[spudbynight]

Must be quite a difficult question to answer for an average Rangers hater.

Ssh.....I think the Celtic fans are reading our brainwaves.

 

[spudbynight]

I have no problem with Rangers getting back on their feet - but only if they are punished for all their rule breaking. Anything less and the entire credibility of the SPL goes out the window.

This is the opinion of most rational people.

 

[McRod]

The other clubs will be fine, its all a ruse by Rangers fans and the dependant media to suggest that Sky will drop the deal if Rangers are not in it, there would be a deal on the table and it wouldnt make much difference, the increased competition in any case would also make up whatever shortfall might occur.

Utter ****. Have you chose not to listen to Thompson of Dundee Utd and Michael Johnston of Kilmarnock. Rod Petrie too. They need the cash at least in the short term to service thier debts.

We dont need to sell out grounds, we have a hardcore support of between 3000-4000 which is enough to sustain us, we have bigger local games like Kilmarnock who bring as many to give a similar crowd when Rangers and Celtic come to visit, and the best supported team this year was Hearts in the cup quarter final replay, place was crammed.

Once again your "loadsa money" attitude won`t help Dundee Utd. Especially when you look at your comical away support numbers.

As for glory hunters, I dont really think anyone who has a pick of local clubs coming from Blantyre should be commenting on that one, eh

I follow the same team my father followed and my grandather followed. Location is irrelevent.

If St Mirren are free from glory hunters, can you advise where all the fans have gone from the 2010 Cup final when we beat you with 9 men?

Come to think of it, i remember the scottish cup final when Ian Ferguson scored in 1987.

Glory hunting at it`s horrible and obvious worst

 

[McRod]

You said that Rangers needed to be allowed to recover so they could repay what they owe. That doesn't even make sense.

In fact most of what you are posting makes no sense.

Once again ...

Rangers need to be buyable. We need to be attractive to potential new owners.

We need these people to agree to pay a fee to the administrators so the admins can then agree a CVA with our creditors.

The £8.5m gives our unfortunate creditors at least some money back. Liquidation doesn't. Liquidation will happen if no investors want to buy a team who have been hit by unfair sanctions.

We will be liquidated and only the Rangers hating bandwagon claim victory.

Sporting intergrity lol....don`t make me laugh. GROW a pair and at least admit the entire concern for the tax payer is a lie and the demise of Rangers is the real reason for these calls of "Properly punished"

If you guys were genuinrly concerned about the loss of corporation tax revenue, you`d be banging your drums about much larger corporations who avoid tax like it is a game.

 

[McRod]

Edit: Who owns Ibrox, I thought it was Rangers themselves who are in turn owned by one of Whyte's companies?

Any LTD company operating in the UK do so with the least amounts of assets shown on their books.

This protects assets from liquidators should the business fail.

The property in this instance is owned by a holding company who then charge the LTD company or tennant a rent. This rent can be adjusted up or down depending on the tax liability. If he tax bill is high, the rent is increased dramatically to offest the bill.

It is the risk a supplier takes when dealing with a LTD company.

It is the way 99.9% of LTD companies operate. the other 00.1% are people who don`t really know how to run a business and leave themselves fully exposed to liquidators should their businesses fail.

 

[Metalface Mark]

I cant speak for these so called glory hunters, Rangers had the same in Manchester didnt they, you dont see 100,000 in Ibrox every week, indeed, just the other week, Ibrox was half full for the game vs Dundee United.

These chairman are purely and simply basing what they say on worst case scenario, its not Rangers fans not going to their stadiums that they stand to lose from most, its the threat that Sky might pull out and we have no TV deal. There will always be a tv deal, even if its half the amount then the clubs will sustain. Kilmarnock make most of their money from stuff outside of football anyway, with the likes of the hotel and stuff.

So your grandad was a glory hunter and you followed that tradition, thats...nice.

Rangers must pay for their sins, whether that ends with demotion to Division 3 or liquidation and no future, but they must rightfully pay and no shortcuts should be given just because they have the second biggest support in the league.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Once again ...

Rangers need to be buyable. We need to be attractive to potential new owners.

We need these people to agree to pay a fee to the administrators so the admins can then agree a CVA with our creditors.

The £8.5m gives our unfortunate creditors at least some money back. Liquidation doesn't. Liquidation will happen if no investors want to buy a team who have been hit by unfair sanctions.

We will be liquidated and only the Rangers hating bandwagon claim victory.

Sporting intergrity lol....don`t make me laugh. GROW a pair and at least admit the entire concern for the tax payer is a lie and the demise of Rangers is the real reason for these calls of "Properly punished"

If you guys were genuinrly concerned about the loss of corporation tax revenue, you`d be banging your drums about much larger corporations who avoid tax like it is a game.

Liquidation potentially gives the creditors more if the assets can raise more than 8.5 thats being offered for a CVA.

Ibrox and Murray park are worth more than than in land value alone ergo, for the creditors its better that they liquidate.

 

[Jokester]

What's the holding company called? Everything I've read has said that Ibrox is fully owned by Rangers themselves, which is in turn owned by RFC group.

 

[McRod]

I have to say the posting by many Rangers across Rangers forums is a fantastic source of comedy gold.

Paranoia, xenophobia, bigoted, the lot. Anyone who disagrees with their paranoia and delusion are part of a papal consipirancy apparently.

I did feel sorry for Sally at the start but given the conduct of fans in this time I hope Rangers get punished.

Thats just it though. We are being punished and very few of us are arguing against that.

We understand fully our club has been allowed to be run by charlatans who we were helpless to get rid off. Like a car crash we were and are helpless in removing these people.

What we have a problem with is the transfer embargo which has been handed down. This is where the anger comes from.

We`ve had our 10 points deducted, we`ve had our fines imposed etc etc but the transfer embargo handicaps the entire club as it tried to emerge from the spectre of administration. It serves no purpose other that satisfying the terminal Rangers haters. (I remember no such bile and hatred directed towards Motherwell, Livingston, Gretna, Portsmouth, Plymouth etc).

Understand the anguish and conduct of Rangers fans is down to the fact we are staring down the barrel of a very heavily loaded gun. Naturally our enemies are revelling in it but i have every sympathy for my less fundamentalist fans who just want to see Scottish Football return to some kind of equilibrium and a team left for us to follow. The internet is never a safe place to form a final opinion of something or someone. Meet a decent Rangers fan face to face and you`ll soon get the gist of his genuine worry and concern.

 

[Jokester]

The 12month transfer embargo isn't to do with the adminstration - it's for breaking other rules.

 

[McRod]

I cant speak for these so called glory hunters, Rangers had the same in Manchester didnt they, you dont see 100,000 in Ibrox every week, indeed, just the other week, Ibrox was half full for the game vs Dundee United.

These chairman are purely and simply basing what they say on worst case scenario, its not Rangers fans not going to their stadiums that they stand to lose from most, its the threat that Sky might pull out and we have no TV deal. There will always be a tv deal, even if its half the amount then the clubs will sustain. Kilmarnock make most of their money from stuff outside of football anyway, with the likes of the hotel and stuff.

So your grandad was a glory hunter and you followed that tradition, thats...nice.

Rangers must pay for their sins, whether that ends with demotion to Division 3 or liquidation and no future, but they must rightfully pay and no shortcuts should be given just because they have the second biggest support in the league.

Mark, you started on this thread about glory hunters, not me. Now take some medicine from an extra large spoon. Open wide.

Mark i need to be able to trust you when i spend time debating with you. The fact i reply to you should be taken as a compliment that i think you have said something important. Youre sentence about Ibrox being half full means your skating in thin ice.

My Grandfather was born in Govan and fought in WW2. His love for the Rangers was forged then.

Rangers are the TV deal. Are you seriously suggesting SKY Tv will give you anything other than a bag of peanuts for a St Mirren V Ross County match in Paisley. No disrespect but have you seen the way St Mirren play recently?

We agree we should receive some sort of punishment. The transfer embargo isn`t fair although i do concede it could have been far worse.....we could be made to watch St Mirren play every week.

 

[Metalface Mark]

The 12month transfer embargo isn't to do with the adminstration - it's for breaking other rules.

Thats the main problem, Rangers fans just dont understand what they are being punished for.

Its also a tip of what's to come.

 

[McRod]

Mark,

Then perhaps you should enlighten us all as to the exact breakdown of ALL the "crimes" and their relative fines.

We like to think we know them like the back of our hands but we`re obviously missing something.

Give us the low down.

 

[McRod]

Thats the main problem, Rangers fans just dont understand what they are being punished for.

Its also a tip of what's to come.

Thats the other main problem, the hate bandwagon don`t seem to understand what liquidation actually spells for the tax payer, the creditors and the future of Scottish football.

Blinded by the insatiable urge to put the boot in it doesn`t matter if that £8.5m pays a single person back.

Rangers must remain on their knees for their own personal satisfaction.