The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

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McRod said:
Mark, you started on this thread about glory hunters, not me. Now take some medicine from an extra large spoon. Open wide.

Mark i need to be able to trust you when i spend time debating with you. The fact i reply to you should be taken as a compliment that i think you have said something important. Youre sentence about Ibrox being half full means your skating in thin ice. :D

My Grandfather was born in Govan and fought in WW2. His love for the Rangers was forged then.

Rangers are the TV deal. Are you seriously suggesting SKY Tv will give you anything other than a bag of peanuts for a St Mirren V Ross County match in Paisley. No disrespect but have you seen the way St Mirren play recently? :D

We agree we should receive some sort of punishment. The transfer embargo isn`t fair although i do concede it could have been far worse.....we could be made to watch St Mirren play every week. :cool:
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Im guessing you havent seen the way St Mirren have played recently, along with Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee United we play football the right way and as a result we have seen some fantastic games between these clubs this season.

I watched Rangers vs Utd on TV, there was about 25,000 there, not a poor attendance by any means, the official attendance was close to capacity, it mean around 15-20,000 loyal bears didnt bother to turn up to cheer on their team, do you think you would sell out every week if you are near the bottom of the league next year? I remember the eighties when Ibrox would have sub 10k attendances, these loyal fans walked away before, they will walk away again.

By the way, Im not anti Rangers in any way, I dont want to see them liquidated or cease to exist but if they are not punished properly then yes, I would like to see them die, Id rather that that have us all playing in a corrupt league. I understand in all sport there are bigger and smaller teams and I follow my little team every week, home and maybe half of the away games because I love the team that I have always loved and I know fans of Rangers will have the same feelings towards there team that I have towards mine. Ive had the ups and downs that Rangers and Celtic fans have never had before, from being a hairs breath from extinction if relegated to Division 2 in 1997, to seeing us play in europe and lose to the eventual winners in 1987. Rangers fans are now maybe to understand what its like to support a smaller team now, having ups and downs that you have never experienced before and worrying about your clubs future.

You keep banging on that Rangers are Scottish football and its not true, Scottish football would survive without Rangers (and Celtic) and for years both clubs have tried to work their ticket out of the league, why should we want to do things that might save you now that you need us? Both of these clubs would have left for England or elsewhere given any chance that they had, we would be okay if Rangers go in the long term and if a few casualties happen then that will be their fault too for not budgeting correctly.

We actually have a high amount of people watching our games live compared to other countries in europe anyway, take the SPL out and we are still something like the 9th best supported league per head in europe, with the SPL in, we are 3rd or 4th.
 
McRod said:
Thats the other main problem, the hate bandwagon don`t seem to understand what liquidation actually spells for the tax payer, the creditors and the future of Scottish football.

Blinded by the insatiable urge to put the boot in it doesn`t matter if that £8.5m pays a single person back.

Rangers must remain on their knees for their own personal satisfaction. ;)
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Wrong. If they could sell ibrox and murray park for 30m say (a reasonable estimate), then thats a better result for the taxpayer than getting 1/4 less.

Thats the bottom line, like it or not.
 
Metalface Mark said:
Wrong. If they could sell ibrox and murray park for 30m say (a reasonable estimate), then thats a better result for the taxpayer than getting 1/4 less.

Thats the bottom line, like it or not.
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The Rangers Witch hunters aren`t going to like this Mark....

Craig Whyte, bless him, is (or rather was) the sole secured creditor to the tune of 18m although these figures seem to vary upwards. He sold his 85% shares and assets for £1 to Green`s consortium. (Who now own the realtively worthless assets).

Ibrox Park, as a grade 1 listed building is WORTHLESS to anyone or any organisation other than for the purpose of forming a football team. Who would/could buy it? In monetary terms it is worthless. Maybe St Mirren could buy it. I think there`s enough seats in the dug outs for all your fans. :D

At the point of liquidation, i understand players contracts become null and void and therefor they can command no transfer fee. What club would pay a penny for a player who is out of contract?

I can`t imagine Auchenhowie being worth much. There is more over priced land for sale in that area than anywhere else and why ASDA or TESCO etc would build a supermarket in the middle of nowhere is anyone`s guess. Surprisingly land in this area is very cheap to buy for business use. I assume no one is daft enough to suggest it is sold for housing? :D

So there we are......any pennies left after the adminstrators and liquidators are paid, goes to Craig Whyte/ Green Consortium. The tax payer in the form HMRC gets, so put in a good relavent Scottish term....hee haw.

Craig Whyte thought this is all he had to do to rid us of our historic debt. What he didn`t bargain for was the Rangers fans reaction.

You see as much as you would all like to demonise us at every opportunity, we actually really do want to pay our creditors. As the fog clears on Whyte`s master plan, he thought he would be loved for doing this. He was spectacularly wrong.

Rangers ONLY asset is the loyalty of the fans. Guys like for who for 30 years have poured more money in to the club than i care to remember. Such is the importance of us being an "asset", ticketus jumped at the chance of future season ticket sales as they realised there was NO worth anywhere else. No stadium, training ground or players. The real asset is tubes like me. :D

This is why we are where we are. This is why there is no Craig Whyte hasn`t commited any crimes, this is why HMRC don`t want liquidation and won`t deal with CW, this is why it has taken so long to find a buyer when every other business in the world would have been liquidated by now.

All of a sudden that £8.5m sounds like a gold mine to the HMRC who, unless i`m wildly mistaken, will accept. When that day comes, i expect a few on here to congratulate everyone involves on at least getting some money back from this situation and watch Scottish football get back on it`s feet.

I won`t hold my breath. :D
 
Ibrox is worth more than 8.5m, it can be used for a multitude of things other than football, Frank Sinatra played there for example.

You are wildy mistaken fortunately, HMRC will not accept a CVA, they never do, they will rightly try to make an example of Rangers.

Ill make you a charity bet if you like £50 says that the CVA will fail and a newco will have to be formed.
 
Why is that a punishment to the fans? Explain to me how you are being punished?

Are you suggesting that the punishment is that the team you watch on the park is not as good as it could be? You cant afford to pay your current debts, why should you be able to sign any new players? You keep banging on that Rangers will pay their debts, well pay them and then sign new players once everyone has been paid off.

At the moment you are being deprived of nothing as you are in administration, you cant sign anyone at the moment anyway so the ban currently is meaningless.

The current batch of Rangers players is the second best in the league just now, even when all your stars go at the end of the month, Naismith, McGregor, Whittaker, Davis etc you will still have a top six squad.

Its completely ludicrous to suggest the Rangers fans are being punished and just shows how out of touch they are with the reality of the situation.
 
Metalface Mark said:
Ibrox is worth more than 8.5m, it can be used for a multitude of things other than football, Frank Sinatra played there for example.

You are wildy mistaken fortunately, HMRC will not accept a CVA, they never do, they will rightly try to make an example of Rangers.

Ill make you a charity bet if you like £50 says that the CVA will fail and a newco will have to be formed.
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If, then as you say, Ibrox is worth upwards of £30m, why aren`t HMRC rampaging towards it.

Are you suggesting somebody pays 30m for it to hold concerts there?

Mark, come on, you`re not thinking straight. :D

Who is going to pay 30m for a grade 1 listed Football stadium in Govan with the utterly chronic traffic congestion and public transport when there`s several better venues closer to the town centre? (Hampden, SECC, Armadillo) etc.

Give me 1 name or organisation who would pay it? (Other than a newco Rangers for 1 pound)
 
McRod said:
You think HMRC want liquidation?

On what basis?

Hope? :D
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They don't want liquidation, they want their money. HMRC do not accept CVAs, especially where it has been found that the company used the tax man's money to run it with. If liquidation is the alternative to a CVA they view it as a warning to other companies not to do the same. Moral hazard and all that.
 
McRod said:
If, then as you say, Ibrox is worth upwards of £30m, why aren`t HMRC rampaging towards it.

Are you suggesting somebody pays 30m for it to hold concerts there?

Mark, come on, you`re not thinking straight. :D

Who is going to pay 30m for a grade 1 listed Football stadium in Govan with the utterly chronic traffic congestion and public transport when there`s several better venues closer to the town centre? (Hampden, SECC, Armadillo) etc.

Give me 1 name or organisation who would pay it? (Other than a newco Rangers for 1 pound)
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HMRC arent rampaging towards anything at the moment, dont you understand the situation? They are a creditor, if they think the administrators are not doing their job correctly for them they can petition to get them removed and replaced with another. Due to the tax case being up in the air at the moment their final debt may or may not be the largest.

You really need to read more into the actual dealing of whats going on with your club as you clearly have a loose grasp of things. May I suggest the excellent rangers administration thread on pie and bovril which will explain everything for you if you can stomach the 20,000 odd posts in it.

Ibrox could be re-zoned for anything, housing, shopping, its certainly not worth what its on Rangers books for but there is potential there given the size of the land, even St Mirren managed to get just shy of 11m for a site thats probably a third of its size (albeit before the economic problems took hold).

As you will obviously know its only part of ibrox thats listed, just as highbury was for Arsenal and successfully re-zoned into something other than a football stadium.
 
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