The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

[McMav]

The case against Whyte's lawyers isn't being heard until October so I doubt it'll be included in the CVA. From the looks of things any debt to HMRC will be included in the CVA offer pot of £8.5m so wouldn't really matter what the big tax case results would be now (other than comedy gold)?

If rejected Green wants a newco like Bill Miller was planning so we'd be back in the situation of whether they go into 3rd division, SPL (more likely) or a restructured top-tier (SFA league) according to further SPL punishments. Also, wouldn't they need to be out of administration by the 4th August to dodge any new penalties beyond the 10 point deduction?

No it can be listed in the CVA and all that will happen is creditors will get paid out pence in pound on the 8.5 million. then if court case won whatever is won will then be divvied out at a later date equally amongst the creditors increasing the overall pence in pound. So it can be included but it cannot be garuntee'd so its a bit of a gamble from creditors.

As to the second then who knows the goalposts for punishment seem to be adjusted to whatever they feel like.

 

[Metalface Mark]

The case against Whyte's lawyers isn't being heard until October so I doubt it'll be included in the CVA. From the looks of things any debt to HMRC will be included in the CVA offer pot of £8.5m so wouldn't really matter what the big tax case results would be now (other than comedy gold)?

If rejected Green wants a newco like Bill Miller was planning so we'd be back in the situation of whether they go into 3rd division, SPL (more likely) or a restructured top-tier (SFA league) according to further SPL punishments. Also, wouldn't they need to be out of administration by the 4th August to dodge any new penalties beyond the 10 point deduction?

As soon as the creditors agree to the CVA they can be taken out of administration.

 

[spudbynight]

Real Rangers men don`t walk away.

Unless there is a debt involved?

 

[Metalface Mark]

Unless there is a debt involved?

Its a joke of a saying, the same as we are the people, and completely meaningless.

 

[jamesy505]

Mark,

Remember the first 18m or so goes to the secured creditors before HMRC get a sniff.

Now can anyone explain what HMRC stand to gain by waiting in the queue to see if theres any scraps left after the secured creditors are paid?

It is in the interests of everyone that a CVA is agreed so at least some money can be recovered instead of zero.

As a tax payer i would be extremely angry if they chose £0 instead of a share of the £8.5m

If £18mil goes to secured creditors, where is that coming from if the CVA pot is only £8.5mil?

 

[Metalface Mark]

Mark,



As a tax payer i would be extremely angry if they chose £0 instead of a share of the £8.5m

Its not a case of choosing nothing, liquidation would raise more money, its staggering that you cant see this.

 

[jas72]

Hmm would it really?

It's staggering that YOU can't see that a prosperous Rangers would bring in over the next 5 years 3-4 times the amount they'd get from destroying the club.

Not to mention the loss of a significant employer in the local area. 170 jobs in this climate are not easy to replace...

Like I said before Rangers have failed to pay their taxes, we as fans agree that this should bring with it some punishment I also feel personally that I would like to see all debts paid in full, however there aren't any business men who are willing to pay such debts therefore as Rangers fans we accept things as they stand.

However you know it, I know it, and HMRC damned well knows that 40000 X £70 VAT (assuming season tickets at £350) = 2.8 MILLION each year is worth more alone that a one off firesale of the club's assets.

I'm not even counting PAYE nor any other income generated by the club.

Simply VAT on season ticket sales.

I would be DEEPLY annoyed if HMRC did anything to stem that income in the long term for potentially 2-3 million more than a CVA.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Thats all an irrelevance, its saying "dont pay your taxes for a wee while but pay other taxes in future and its all okay".

Not paying taxes, NI contributions and the EBT tax avoidance scam all need sorting out now if the history is to stay, saying "keep us open, we will make your money back!" is the weakest form of defence imaginable.

 

[spudbynight]

Thats all an irrelevance, its saying "dont pay your taxes for a wee while but pay other taxes in future and its all okay".

Not paying taxes, NI contributions and the EBT tax avoidance scam all need sorting out now if the history is to stay, saying "keep us open, we will make your money back!" is the weakest form of defence imaginable.

The thing is they are not suggesting HMRC will make the money back. HMRC will just get the tax owed on future business. People are still advocating Rangers get off scot free for tax dodging.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Actually most Rangers fans couldnt tell you the origins of We are the people, they just type it after a sentence on facebook

 

[McRod]

Actually most Rangers fans couldnt tell you the origins of We are the people, they just type it after a sentence on facebook

Sweeping generalisations do you no favours.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Sweeping generalisations do you no favours.

Im okay with that.

 

[McRod]

Im okay with that.

St Mirren fans smell !

 

[Metalface Mark]

Yeah, we know we can smell, we have Ibrox only 5 miles away, its an easy stench to pick up when the wind blows a certain way.

 

[Jokester]

I would be DEEPLY annoyed if HMRC did anything to stem that income in the long term for potentially 2-3 million more than a CVA.

HMRC already know that a newco will pick up the reigns so it's a non-arguement.

For HMRC to agree to a CVA, Rangers need to have been honest in their tax dealings, agree to pay all backdated taxes (ignoring the pence in the pound of the CVA) and not to have used tax money to run the company.

They would have to rip up their own rulebook if they were to agree to a CVA.

Edit:
http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/qs29x/rangers---the-men-who-sold-the-jerseys
Apparently it's going to be "explosive" - usually a sure sign of a damp squib (like the football doping one) but should be worth watching regardless.

 

[afraser2k]

Neil Doncaster has made a statement today that Rangers could start as a newco without further penalty in the SPL: BBC.

Finally someone has come out and stated what we knew was likely to happen without the merry-go-round of SPL integrity.

 

[TheGamingGeneral]

As expected, surely that means though any club can apply for direct membership to the SPL then?

 

[McMav]

This from the same Arab Trust that said not that long ago "We don't need you Rangers."

 

[McMav]

Neil Doncaster has made a statement today that Rangers could start as a newco without further penalty in the SPL: BBC.

Finally someone has come out and stated what we knew was likely to happen without the merry-go-round of SPL integrity.

If by that you mean the constant crys of sporting integrity then I will only listen to those crys when players on the park start showing it and I mean all players.

For instance. Hey ref he never touched me it shouldn't be a penalty. Hey ref the ball actually did cross the line. Or we have a tour of Japan organized already so you can't extend the league (Copyright Peter "Sporting Integrity" Lawwell and actually have one organized in the first place.

 

[McRod]

This from the same Arab Trust that said not that long ago "We don't need you Rangers."

Metal Face mark says everyone will be fine without The Rangers.

The other clubs will be fine, its all a ruse by Rangers fans and the dependant media to suggest that Sky will drop the deal if Rangers are not in it, there would be a deal on the table and it wouldnt make much difference, the increased competition in any case would also make up whatever shortfall might occur.

So someone is talking ****.

Who`s your money on?