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The real Muslim problem

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by robmiller, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. robmiller

    Capodecina

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    Look, a thread about Islam!

    Nevertheless, two very good articles, the latter a commentary on the former:

    Both pretty interesting reads.

    Interestingly, the second article made me think quite a lot about the parallels between the current situations Russia and the Middle East. Both were formerly incredibly powerful, at the top of the world - though Russia much more recently than the ME - and since their "falls", much of the population has scapegoated external - or at least irrelevant - factors: much of the Russian population blames democracy (particularly its products - Yeltsin and Putin - and their corruption), whereas the blame from the ME seems apportioned fairly evenly between Jews and "Western" values.

    Anyway, interesting articles and please don't turn this into a ridiculous Muslim bashing thread. Islam != the Middle East, and whilst the region is going through a tremendous deal of trouble at the moment, it's much more a virtue of the wealth of dictatorships in the region as it is something inherent to Islam.
     
  2. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    What is the real Muslim problem? Also, what is the implied fake one?
     
  3. robmiller

    Capodecina

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    I think that might just be what we're supposed to be discussing!

    As for the perceived fake one, I really do think many people think that the deficiencies of the ME are due to some inherent flaw in Islam itself as opposed to the multitudinous other reasons.
     
  4. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    Care to share your opinion then?

    Are you suggesting that Islam is flawless? :confused:
    Isn't the idea that Islam is flawless only a prerequisite of being a Muslim?
     
  5. robmiller

    Capodecina

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    I'm not really sure. I think many people in the Middle East have a definite persecution complex. Of course, it's innate and universal, but it seems to be much more prominent in the Middle East and to a lesser extent other regions; I don't know whether that's given their history or whether it's something else entirely.

    Of course, persecution complexes are naturally destructive and thus self-perpetuating; middle-easterner blame Jews/Western decadence for their problems, thus don't solve said problems, thus the problems get worse, thus they blame Jews even more, etc etc.

    No, of course I don't, and I'm not quite sure how you got that from "it's much more a virtue of the wealth of dictatorships in the region as it is something inherent to Islam". Of course Islam has its flaws, but not to the extent where it has caused the downfall of an entire region.
     
  6. robmiller

    Capodecina

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    In a thread about Iran on another forum, a poster touched on this issue:

    Perhaps, then, Middle-Eastern focus on external factors is actually a deliberate design on the part of many of their governments, rather than something cultural. Certainly makes more sense.
     
  7. weescott

    Sgarrista

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    Does the Islamic world confuse Western imports and all thier pitfalls (McD's, globalisation, scantily clad woman) with democracy as oposed to social problems or even Americanisation?
     
  8. Raz

    Mobster

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    The real problem isn't Islam itself, just the rabble that are Muslims...

    May I ask, what do you believe the real Muslim problem to be?
     
  9. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    If you pointed at someone and said "there is a REAL Muslim" I would point at another and say "is that one any less real?"
     
  10. Sparky__H

    Wise Guy

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    If you keep a man scared and ignorant then you keep him under control.
     
  11. Raz

    Mobster

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    But that applies to everyone who is part of a faith, nationality, identity etc does it not?
     
  12. weescott

    Sgarrista

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    It's open to perception / misconception.
     
  13. Raz

    Mobster

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    Right. So it's an issue with how humans think and see themselves/others. But my question was related to Islam - i.e. the problems of Muslims.
     
  14. weescott

    Sgarrista

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    It's always an issue of perception /misconception. That's what religion is all about - what is accpetable and what isn't and how we as humans percieve it and deal with it.
     
  15. jhmaeng

    Wise Guy

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    But this is no different from the propensity of the current US administration, for example, to use FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to turn the focus of its citizens away from the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan (both the casualties and retrospective lack of justification) and towards a constant message of "axis of evil", "they are still out to get us", "we're making you spend an extra hour at the airport queueing for security checks so that you damned well know we're at war", etc.

    So it's not really something restricted to the Middle Eastern governments - and in turn I don't think you can pin down the religion on the government's such tactics. It's just something that governments resort to when things don't go their way, Islam-based or not.
     
  16. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    Only when you use the qualifier 'real' - suggesting that anyone has authority on what characteristics can define any given label. Characteristics are most often defined by behavioural remit rather than ideals - but generally definitions will belong to specific discourses.
     
  17. ElvisFan

    Mobster

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    The real problem with Islam is that it exists in the first place.
     
  18. clemenzina

    Associate

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    I don't think that Islamic countries would necessarily be helped by democracy, or at least not for hundreds of years - the time it will take to disentrench the inequalities prescribed by that doctrinaire religion.

    One of the original poster's articles remarks on women at the hajj barely able to walk because of their 'sheltered' lives. I have an Iranian friend who has described to me (briefly, I couldn't take much elaboration) the treatment of women as chattels in poor rural households. As long as a majority, no matter how deprived otherwise, have their egos bolstered by this 'power', they will keep the status quo.

    Then there's Sharia law, so inherently corrupt and unobjective, where victims and/or their families can 'forgive' if they're paid enough. Life is cheap.

    I live in an area where there has been a relatively recent influx of overt Moslems (ie, I can see they're Moslems because of their attire) - what with that and the terrorism problem, I'm battling to keep an open mind but it's hard. I really don't think that Islam is compatible with UK society (not that UK society couldn't do with a good wash!).

    clemenzina
     
  19. robmiller

    Capodecina

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    s/Islam/religion
     
  20. Dr Who

    Sgarrista

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    One could say that of Any religion, not just single one out

    ;)