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The real Muslim problem

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by robmiller, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. kumar101

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 1, 2005

    Posts: 401

    Location: Harrow, Middx

    Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

    Qur’an:47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

    Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

    Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”

    Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

    Qur’an:8:73 “The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah’s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid—these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).”



    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jihad


    9/11 New York, 7/7 London, 11/7 Mumbai. People following doctrine from the dark ages in the 21st Century. This is the REAL Muslim problem.
     
  2. wassap

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,337

    Taken out of context, you need to read the whole surah to get an reasoning for the harsh words here.Have a read of this link here http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/tafseer/tauba.htm tries to explain certain verses.

    Dont understand what your iussue is with 47:4, war is ugly always has been and always will be, and thats actually an incorrect translation anyway.

    You are justifying your position on islam by quoting the above verses, the terrorists in the midst of islam do the same, i wish people would actuially take time to get a bit knowledge on a topic before casting aspersions.
     
  3. kumar101

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 1, 2005

    Posts: 401

    Location: Harrow, Middx

    'terrorists in the midst of islam do the same' - Here lies your problem. Not often I agree with Tony Blair but he was right when he stated in his recent speech that its up to Muslims to get their own house in order.
     
  4. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    But if it is written, does that not mean that it is so? If it requires 'context' and 'interpretation' does it not make the Koran ambiguous?

    Can you explain this?
     
  5. wassap

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,337

    If you are trying to understand a subject, do only read one line and take that as the definitive, or do you read the whole passage, the line before, the para and sura before.

    The problem lies not with the Koran, i can read it and not go and bomb the hell out of people, and the vast majority of muslims are the same.
     
  6. wassap

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,337

    Yes you are correct, it is down to muslims to sort their own mess out, but with world politics that aint gonna happen is it, so many noses are poked in politically which really is exacerbating the problem.
     
  7. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    That is a really good question. Often in Christianity, both longer contextual quotes can be used and single sentences as well...

    I'm sure you can read it and not do lots of things within it, but that doesn't mean that only what you do is Koranic.
     
  8. @if ®afiq

    Soldato

    Joined: May 3, 2003

    Posts: 6,080

    After the bombings last year, something like 70 recommendations were made by Muslim groups to help fix the problem, from what I understand the government, in it's willingness to help fix the problem, has implemented less than several og these.
     
  9. Fop

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 5, 2005

    Posts: 345

    Yes but having read that report myself more than a few of those "recommendations" (I think there were 64 separate ones in total) were little more than barely disguised attempts to further the “Islamic cause” (for want of a better description) in the UK, rather than really trying to just stop the things that led to 7/7.

    Just because something is recommended doesn't mean it is so for the right reasons or indeed that it will help, I know I was more than a little appalled at how quickly 7/7 was turned from a tragedy into an opportunity by some. :(

    Although equally there were many that did related to the idea behind the study “Preventing Extremism Together” many were more general ideas or things that were not really in Government control or were long-term goals.


    TBH you’re painting a rather one side and misleading by saying only a few of the 64 recommendations have so far been implemented since it was published in mid November last year (which isn’t that long ago for some of the grander ones), even if you’re just talking about the ones that do relate to removing extremism.

    Although equally it’s fair to say not enough has been done.