The state of the IT industry

Hmm well I just asked him, and I am suprised to hear he didn't get offered a job at Goldman. He claims he didn't do enough work (since he didn't want to get an offer there... because it wold be too tempting to turn down). Offiically they said ""We didn't feel that you wanted to work in an investment banking environment".

anyway, suprised he didn't give it his all... he ain't arrogant and is possibly the nicest person I know. I know some real heavily ambitious people who try to be top dog using any techniques they know and they may not come across great interviewing for companies that don't like that.


but to people who are about to do internships, make sure you do work full pace, and get a job offer :)
 
ArmyofHarmony said:
.. he got to a first round interview with Google... so it goes to show, that experience, although important, isn't the be all and end all of getting a job.
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Did he actually get offered a job though, or even beyond the first round interview?

Getting the first round round interview probably isn't that difficult as long as you have a degree, some work experience and some extra-curricular activities.
 
lumination said:
Did he actually get offered a job though, or even beyond the first round interview?

Getting the first round round interview probably isn't that difficult as long as you have a degree, some work experience and some extra-curricular activities.
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Nah I don't think he made it... but it is hard, they are selective... more so than places that are known to be selective (investment banks... big 4 accountancies etc)
 
they are incredibly selective. Even when they approach you they make you jump through hoops to get in there. The perks are great though - they even have a dog creche so you can take your pooch to work! :D
 
Experience seems to count more than qualifications these days, I (on Wednesday this week) was offered a very senior post for an organisation and afterwards I was told by my possible future boss that I beat over 100 other candidates.

I was fairly suprised to even get an interview, as although I've 9 years experience I have no degree, no MSCE etc. In fact the only computing qualification (not even I.T. really) is a 2 at standard grade!

Granted I'm qualified in other areas and have some project managment experience but I was surprised that experience and my interview was enough to get me the job.

No complaints - but I wouldn't be too happy if I had a raft of qualifications and was beaten by someone like me!

Granted my future boss does have these qualifications and perhaps simply doesn't think they're worth much these days.
 
Admiral Huddy said:
I've seen many changes in IT over the past 25 years.

From a development point of view, the biggest change is knowledge availability and afforadability of desktop PCs.

20 years ago, PCs were 5K plus and no one had a PC in the house. There was no internet and programming used to be pretty much restricted to BASIC and a few others. Mainframe programming was specialist. You have to have trainning provided by your company. I was taken on as a trainee and spent 4 weeks training with IBM.

Nowadays, with PCs become mainstream and affordable along with interent access, anyone can pick up programming even from the comfort of there own bedroom. Pieces of code can be download and can be jigsawed together like building bricks without hardly any previous programming experience.

Development isn't so specialised anymore and the skills of students coming out of college and uni is quite competitive but the employers now have plenty of choice of who they take on.

Another big change has been centralisation. This has been a growing trend over the past 8 years. Companies saving huge amount of money by moving their systems to one big data center and sometimes this is abroad. Like many trades, this can work out much cheaper than british labour.
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i have problems doing a hello world in basic, so i'm stuffed, let alone try a programme in VB for college assignment
 
NathanE said:
The IT industry at the moment has not been in better shape since the dot com boom.
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I'd disagree, in terms of getting decent staff at least. We have a much harder time recruiting at the moment than we have in the last few years, we're offering more money than we were but still finding it very hard to find people with the right skills sets.

I think there's a lot of competition as well, no companies in our sector are really doing well. Nobody is going out of business just yet but I think there will be another round of mergers and acquisitions coming up...
 
I agree that most of the issue is people not having real world experience. With so many experienced people competing for jobs, a junior person can't compete against them. Instead they end up competing against cheap offshore labour - and are too expensive.

Unfortunately I was recently declined for redundancy. My company are offshoring a lot of work and I applied for voluntary redundancy. After it was agreed by my local management it was blocked by another area of the company as I have too much experience. Ironically I'd recently spoken to a few agencies and I suspect that if I did just resign and try to get a job elsewhere then I'd struggle: it seems that I have been at one place too long for them to take me seriously, and as I also don't have a degree then my CV will often be filtered out.

I have over 20 years experience in testing, performance analysis, design, development, architecture, live support and management, across multiple technologies: mainframe, windows, unix and linux. And my current employer seems desperate to keep me. Yet these agencies say my lack of a degree is an issue for other permie roles :confused:

Oh well, probably just going to resign and go contracting anyway (no degree issues there, and much better money) :D One last gasp before exiting the industry.
 
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Hades said:
I agree that most of the issue is people not having real world experience. With so many experienced people competing for jobs, a junior person can't compete against them. Instead they end up competing against cheap offshore labour - and are too expensive.

Unfortunately I was recently declined for redundancy. My company are offshoring a lot of work and I applied for voluntary redundancy. After it was agreed by my local management it was blocked by another area of the company as I have too much experience. Ironically I'd recently spoken to a few agencies and I suspect that if I did just resign and try to get a job elsewhere then I'd struggle: it seems that I have been at one place too long for them to take me seriously, and as I also don't have a degree then my CV will often be filtered out.

I have over 20 years experience in testing, performance analysis, design, development, architecture, live support and management, across multiple technologies: mainframe, windows, unix and linux. And my current employer seems desperate to keep me. Yet these agencies say my lack of a degree is an issue for other permie roles :confused:

Oh well, probably just going to resign and go contracting anyway (no degree issues there, and much better money) :D One last gasp before exiting the industry.
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I would go to another agent if they are telling you that to be honest.

20 years exp, i would say that would out shine anyone with a degree to be honest.
 
ArmyofHarmony said:
Erm



If you do a degree PROPERLY, and use all the advantages that come along with it, you'll definatly be far ahead of people without one who are the same age.
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Well i don't think that's always the case to be honest. It all comes down to the person applying for the job, the recruiter and the company.
 
I have to agree that as the years have gone by looking for new IT work has become much much easier for me. When i first started i would go 6months being unemployed now 6years later i can find new work on the 2nd or 3rd interview after a couple of weeks looking round.

And i have to say it's completely shocking the new young guys that come in with their MSCE's and they know absolutely nothing, they don't even look interested. And seem well... a bit slow...like they're on dope or something
 
Hey! im an old - ish guy... i have 13 years experience and ill let you into a little secret, i have no degree, no mcse, no A levels, I do have a NVQ3 which was extremely easy to pass and thats all i have in IT quals.

As others have said on here, its not about what Quals you have, its what you can do and more importantly, what you wilol do when face with a problem you can not fix... your attitude and desire is what matters.

I got my foot in the door by doing contracts, some like them some dont, but end of the day, 6 weeks experience is 6 weeks more than most grads, and if its for a large firm, even better.

I have seen working IT depts now for places like GMP, NISSAN, Procotor and Gamble, Kellooges [spelling there], AKZO NOBLE, NHS, MOD ect.. at each point I was able to use the time i had spent int he past place to help over come problems in the new place. Its all a learning curve, you never stop learning, you never stop making contacts and you never want to stop doing it. When you do, leave the industry.

Without contracting id still be a warehouse working, which helped me as i have a down to earth view and humour and do infact find im one of the few suits who get on with the staff in warehouses with ease, at least to my face lol.. So use your background, your intelligence, your hobbies, your mates and most of all, your passion to get that job. Just dont forget, if you cant get a full time job, there is always CONTRACTING..... you may even like it...

<ColiN> - contractor forever :)
 
robgmun said:
I have to agree that as the years have gone by looking for new IT work has become much much easier for me. When i first started i would go 6months being unemployed now 6years later i can find new work on the 2nd or 3rd interview after a couple of weeks looking round.
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Same, I've moved jobs twice in the last year, both times took 2 weeks to relax, then 2 weeks hunting and was back in work.
 
I am a student at the moment and sometime this year i go on to do my foundation degree. You guys say its all down to experience which i have to agree with you it does, and i can say my college gets us to do two days of work experience each week when on the foundation course, and you dont just make cups of tea so ive been told, coming from someone who has actually done this, he said he was thrown straight into project work and getting support all along the way.

Im sure this work experience counts for something, like i know its not 2 years of full time work employment but you still get an insight to it all.

My current path into the I.T industry is not to become some basic skilled worker but to become a developer in websites and programs. I have been faced with decisions to move into a job, but i thought doing my degree would be a great idea as i need to learn the programming languages and web languages. I also can get my full CCNA qualification on top of all that which i think has to be worth some credit!

so would an employer look upon someone who had 2 years of experience in data infrastructures and another 2 in being a network engineer along with several occasions where work experience has been taken during college giving me 4 different companies which have given me a job to be someone who could be a good person to give a job to? going by experience
 
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