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The Trump presidency

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by datalol-jack, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,169

    Will Donald J. Trump make America great again or fall on his sword? You decide: all things POTUS Trump go in this thread.

    Following on from the presidential election thread: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18755281&page=159.

    So far his transition is perceived as going smoothly enough, and although his staff picks have courted controversy, few people seem to even know who they are and what they stand for. Can it end well?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  2. Tunney

    Capodecina

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    Location: London

  3. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

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    Location: Wish i was in New York

    The whole thing started like a joke, entire campaign was stuff with lies and it will continue to be so.

    All politicians lie but Trump lies a billion times more frequent.

    Let's face it now.

    He isn't going to build a Mexican Wall.
    He isn't going to defeat ISIS in a month.
    He isn't going to drain the swamp from Washington, he is the swamp.
    He is under control of the SuperPacs.
    He has businesss interests all over which he will use the office to take advantage of. The whole campaign was about money for him, look at all those money spent on hats! To think the presidency is any different, you've got to be stupid to believe it.

    By the way, make America great again slogan, has anyone asked him what MAKES America great in the first place? What did it lose that he would get back? What is it that it lost?
     
  4. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,071

    Hasn't he backtracked on pretty much everything he said already? He'll probably go down as just another mediocre president, and in 4 years time be a bit richer.
     
  5. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    Posts: 6,169

    Sigh, someone should tell him how Reagan and Maggie did it. He's too brazen about it.

    It means whatever you want it to mean.

    Hey, jobless factory man, what do you want? A job, a great job!
    Hey, militia bro, what do you want? Great gun rights!
    Hey, racist imperial grand wizard-thingy, what do you want? Great white race!
    Hey, anti-immigration-but-I'm-not-really-racist-gent, what do you want? A great wall on Mexico's border!
    Hey, Mr Tinfoil, what do you want? Great court battles!
    Hey, terrified madam, what do you want? A great bombing of ISIS!
    Hey, MGTOW/MRA duderino, what do you want? A great deal of manly rights!
    Hey, tribal Republican, what do you want? A great tax break and a VP that's not you, pls.
    Hey, pit dweller, what do you want? A great deal of coal power!

    And so on. Go to every key town and city in the swing states, read the audience, and apply the MAGA blend to suit. Leave and wipe all memory of the event and the people therein. Congratulations, you're POTUS!

    Trump's approach essentially left the policy platform down to the GOP's machinery, attacked Hillary and depressed turnout; a blank cheque to the establishment and his constituency; only one can be cashed. Though if he does insist on running the USA as a family business, with Bannon supervising from the shadows and providing ideological cover, I'm sure we shall have a POTUS Pence thread in a couple of years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  6. Vonhelmet

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    The worry is that he'll be a puppet for all the monsters in the Republican Party.
     
  7. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    Tbf, the people voted on the GOP's platform for Senate and HoR. Not presuming too much on the turnout that there was, but this does in some way indicate that at least some people are looking for that very kind of punishment change. How many Tea-baggers/'libertarians' did they push through this time?
     
  8. Vonhelmet

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    I'm no clinton fan...

    Also, not really sc material, your post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2016
  9. datalol-jack

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2016
  10. silversurfer

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  11. Vonhelmet

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    I can't for a moment believe he will be able to maintain independence in his decision making.
     
  12. datalol-jack

    Soldato

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    An actual blind trust would serve him and his family well. At least give it to a Trump that's nowhere near the White House, world leaders and business executives lobbying the president. :\ Also that impeachment game: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-constitution-republican-latest-a7430441.html.

    A bit early methinks. The best time to have a punt would be just after the midterms. As the article states, a majority Republican Senate would fight impeachment tooth and nail on partisan grounds, whatever is wheeled out against the Donald atm.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  13. Craig1981

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  14. Raymond Lin

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    I always thought that what America "great" is how their country is founded, and the notion that the American Dream is possible and the idea of the land of opportunity where anyone who works hard can make it.

    A nation that is a mix of culture, race from all over the world, despite their origin and reasoning to get there in the first place, founded in an idea that all man are equal...sure, it did take a while for the law to catch up eventually but it got there.

    Human beings are typically a tribal culture, look at the Japanese and their government, it's all Japanese people, look at Russians, it's all Russians, look at Italy, they are all Italian origins. The US you have a President who's dad is Kenyan, you have a Cuban origin Senator in Florida, you had a Austrian Mr Universe Governor. It is a land where if you have a dream, you can make it even if you have humble beginnings. That is the American Dream.

    Re Blind Trust, isn't a Blind Trust meaning you have zero contact with whoever is running it? I cannot imagine his children will note report to him the status of the company while he is in office.
     
  15. datalol-jack

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    A few interesting stunts amid the prosaic GOP fare. What he attempts to replace TPP with would be interesting to see as a precedent to any future 'America First' deals, which would of course set a template for what we could be getting post-Brexit.

    As for the last point, lol, 'But, Donald, what about the lobbyists already in government?'

    That's one vision of America, but even the Founding Fathers knew to temper it a bit. A nativist, as ironic as such a term is in America, counter-argument has always existed: an exceptionalist country, with White-European roots, which can stand on its own; one dominant language, one dominant culture (which more or less reads religion) and one dominant American Dream. It took a battering during the American Civil War, but it never went away.

    Re Trust: It should ideally be a merc administrator with only professional connections to you, who would not interfere or intersect with the responsibilities and actions of your public office. But that's too logical and straightforward for Trump. I'm sure he'll at least try to keep his kids on as advisers. Down to them how they play it, but I'm sure there's at least one business brain in the family that knows that jeopardising their dad's office through their dealings is at best unwise so early on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  16. silversurfer

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    That Westminister chap who died recently, UK richest dude had a blind trust or similar. Lived his whole life with it but not actually his money legally, he was just a beneficary and some board of people ran it for the best interests of all. Then he dies and his son gets to again play that role, never really having the bulk of the money available but of course the total source is billions so he has everything ever needed anyway. That trust was all land in London anyway, you dont want to sell that.
    Trump trust would be all his hotels and similar, again he doesnt want to sell so theres no excuse for not setting this tax free scheme up (the trust pays tax like a company I imagine). Again he just appears to have too much of an ego, even as he wins he wont let it go. In 4 years he'll be near 80... He is even older then Reagan was
     
  17. datalol-jack

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    Yeah, it's his old campaign mentality. The longer he puts this off, the more publicity he gains. Since it's an easier issue to resolve than some of his lawsuits, I think it may be just deflecting from that until he can settle.
     
  18. Acme

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    How much power and influence does the US president actually have, and how much of what they do is carefully vetted and guided by other powers within the US political structure? I was under the impression that every decision needed to be approved?

    If this is the case then at least there is hope that he won't be allowed to carry out any of his more extreme ideas.

    My apologies for my ignorance regarding how this works.

    The other thing I was thinking is that he has angered an awful lot of people, millions, and quite a lot of people in the US get incredibly passionate about their political beliefs. I'm wondering if we will see an attempt at an assassination... Which looking past the face value of such an incident, is no good thing!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  19. datalol-jack

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    In brief in throes of insomnia:

    POTUS is the head of state and government; he's also the commander in chief of the armed forces. On balance, he holds more powers than say a British PM on the executive side, but is more limited on the legislative side. One interesting difference is the POTUS's ability to appoint Supreme Justices allows for far more partisanship and discretion than you'd get as PM.

    The first check is the Constitution: POTUS can't dodge the need for new legislation via an executive order or act unconstitutionally -- there's judicial review. Executive orders do take on the full force of law when activated but can be struck down.

    Another check is the Senate, which confirms major staff appointments, justices and the like (though Bannons/advisers/made-up positions of the world do not need to be confirmed).

    Finally, POTUS has to work with Congress leaders to pass new legislation, where more sticking points may occur, especially if it's something major like changing the Constitution (a rather involved, countrywide dance that it can be in and of itself) or losing control of either or both houses.

    With Trump the problem is that he can stuff the Supreme Court with utter nutters (up to 4 during his tenure, I believe), and has both the Senate and the House of Reps in Republican hands. So initially, if he can work with the Republican establishment, he has free rein to attempt whatever schemes he likes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  20. phil675

    Mobster

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    Obama used executive orders to implement some stuff rather than getting it through the house and senate, but Trump can just repeal them. It's harder to repeal things that go through the house and senate.

    So if Donald implements EOs that go too far, Ivanka can repeal them in 2024.