1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Trump presidency

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by datalol-jack, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. drunkenmaster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 32,966


    You unfortunately kept that next line in, illegal immigration is MASSIVELY down over the past decade. Republicans didn't want to build a wall a decade ago, neither did democrats and illegal crossings, illegal immigration went down massively over that period. There is no crisis, there is no problem.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44319094

    Would this be why you cut and cropped one image but left of the one that says it was 1.6billion migrants on the US mexico border in 2000, and it's been steadily around the 300-400k mark since 2010 and declined fairly steadily to that point.

    There is no sudden uptick, there is dramatically less activity on the southern border than in the past, like massively less. Absolutely no one at all except Trump believes there is a crisis. Illegal immigration is down, for a few years now the net total of immigrants means more illegals are crossing the border back into mexico than are crossing into the states. It's been that way for a few years and again back when the numbers were drastically higher, many more people were staying and there was a net flow of people into the US, it's literally gotten to the point where for every illegal immigrant that goes across, 1 or more go back across the boarder.

    This excusing the fact that both illegal immigrants and legal immigrants commit LESS crimes than the native population. THere isn't some massive wave where everyone crossing is a dangerous psychopath, most who try to stay permanently want a life away from crime ridden areas in Mexico, they want better lives and are willing to work for them. They also make up the vast majority of those who work on farms and other places that can't afford legal wages. Meaning stopping them crossing would actually damage the economy pretty badly with many many farms failing due to increasing cost of workers and simply lack of supply of workers. Americans don't want to work in the fields for terrible pay.

    There is no crisis, illegal immigration is WAY WAY down, net migration is way way way down to the point where it's a non issue, crime of immigrants is a non issue.

    The actual issues like terrorists being caught almost exclusively come through sea and air ports yet he wants to pee away money on a wall that won't help at all, as in it will literally achieve nothing at all while during his shut down security at airports and docks is worsened due to staff not being paid and not showing up.

    Most importantly that 5 billion, which people seem to forget is the FIRST of MANY MANY payments that would be required for the wall, would do drastically more for border security by being spent on security personnel for sea and air ports in america.

    Trump is 'in' construction... and he's trying to get a worthless wall built, ask yourself by who and where the money goes, when every single study, every single security/intelligence officer in the states says a wall won't help border security in the slightest.

    Walls can be scaled, walls can be broken, walls can be dug under... as the existing walls and fences... and the massive majority of illegal immigrants are those who overstay their visas, not those who cross the borders illegally.
     
  2. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,046

    Location: On A Rocket

    Yeah, it is way down. No doubt to increased border security, so the previous administrations attempt of a several pronged approach has obviously worked to some degree. I think we can agree on that.

    Why was it called a crisis in 2014 then? 60,000 to 70,000 apprehensions per month in 2014. 60,000 to 70,000 apprehensions per month from the end of last year to the start of this year.

    Why are they calling it a crisis then but not now?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/...system-overwhelmed-by-women-and-children.html

    There is plenty of articles about it if you use the search settings for 2014

    Human trafficking is on the rise, so i dont understand your view that just because security has got better means they can stop. If human trafficking is on the rise on the souther border, surely you would agree the job is not finished?

    And what do you mean democrats/republicans didnt want to build a barrier a decade ago?
    Yes they did, they passed a bill for $40 billion a few years ago, Bush created the security fence act in 2006
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
    https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1079165168976838658

    I wish people would stop peddling this idea that barriers dont work. Of course they do..
    It may not be fool proof, but to say it wont make any difference is just deluded..

    It'll help create choke points, (THOUGHT EXPERIMENT) i wonder what would happen to human trafficking if you had 1 choke point across the whole border instead of no barrier at all?

    Would human trafficking go up or down? Obviously it would go down. You're not that moronic to say otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  3. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,420

    Location: London

    Trump's third year was also going to be a nightmarish car crash because of Mueller and the Democrats taking the House, and yet he's managed to beat both of them from day one.
     
  4. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 62,633

    Location: Wish i was in New York

    It was an humanitarian crisis of women and children. Trump’s idea of a crisis is that they are rapist and murderers.

    Do you know the difference?

    Trump also said “I will call a national emergency if Nancy don’t approve the wall”

    That some proves it’s not a crisis, no crisis can be vanished in an instant with a political decision. A hurricane don’t change course because Nancy Polosi say something. A national crisis is not as a result of politics. Trump is fabricating this crisis all by himself. There has been no caravan invasion and there has not been an invasion of any kind. The numbers is the lowest it is in 20 years and if it is a crisis then why Trump didn’t call it the minute it step into office? Why wait until the numbers are lower? Or is it he got called out on by a couple of radio hosts and he got butt hurt?
     
  5. rIcK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 5, 2004

    Posts: 1,229

    If you read the wiki article on bushes fence which was only small stretch in comparison to the Trump wall, was both massively over budget and literally did nothing to stop people climbing over, under and through the fence...

    The southern border is around 2000 miles. That is a completely crazy distance. Imagine a wall going up and down our country England to Scotland about 3 times or driving a car at 70mph none stop for 30 hours to cover that distance. Or if you could build a mile of wall per day it would take over 5.5 years of continued building.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5

    This article seems to indicate a 20 mile stretch costing 73 million, 2000 miles is 73 billion without even including ongoing maintenance.

    Then there's the miles of rivers, deserts, mountains etc. The entire scale of it is mind boggling...
     
  6. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,046

    Location: On A Rocket

    but it wont be 2000 miles anyway, that's not even a consideration at the moment, its not an all or nothing situation. They cant even get 5b to start on certain areas. The administration obviously thinks it can reinforce areas and add to problematic areas. They arent plucking this stuff out of nowhere, its the head of border security himself thats saying they need more barriers.
    Trump is asking for an 1/8th of what the Democrats signed off just a few years ago. It comes across as party politics rather than actually disagreeing with reinforcing certain areas. As has been proven, they are not against barriers.


    Here-
    https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-...i-believe-what-president-doing-hes-absolutely

    Sorry, former head of border security. Under the Obama administration
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  7. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 62,633

    Location: Wish i was in New York

    Or it’s the distance of building a wall from Edinburgh to London then to Moscow.
     
  8. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,458

    Why
    Didn't
    Republicans
    Do
    It
    When
    They
    Controlled
    Both
    Houses
    In
    The
    Last
    Two
    Years
    ?
     
  9. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,046

    Location: On A Rocket

  10. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,521

    Location: Canada

    Here’s a suggestion, rather than $5billion for 200 miles of wall (which is what this is all about), why doesn’t he come up with a broader plan - perhaps a plan that costs even more - to do with border security. He could include additional funding for other non wall related projects as well as the $5b for the tricky areas.

    As it is all it seems he’s doing (based on his recent talk and past campaigning) is asking for money to build part of his wall. Then next quarter he’ll ask for another $5b, and another $5b etc.

    Come up with a coherent border security plan (like those ones you highlighted from the past) and perhaps the house will go with it...
     
  11. The Geezer

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 13, 2010

    Posts: 1,921

    It’s was down to Trump refusing to support the DACA citizen programme the Dems would have given him the money if he allowed 800k law abiding DACA recipients to become full citizens. As usual it all kicked off as he’s hard on immigration and not even these 800k law abiding people would get his support. You may recall MS-13 was his go to lie at the time claiming all DACA recipients were gang members.

    Here are the facts:
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...out-unauthorized-immigrants-enrolled-in-daca/

    Obviously Trusty finds the only link on the web where the numbers are over inflated, we know the number is 800k it was all over the news and Congress.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  12. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,046

    Location: On A Rocket

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/25/politics/white-house-immigration-framework/index.html

    Happy?
     
  13. DisrupTor75

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 30, 2009

    Posts: 2,435

    Location: Merseyside. UK

    What happend to the 5.7 (or so) billion he was asking for? According to this...

    So now it's jumped to $25 billion? There's no way the dems are going to go for that even as spineless as they usually are.

     
  14. Rifte

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 17, 2010

    Posts: 2,700

    Location: Somewhere in Asia

    Hypothetically, if Trump managed to bully his way to the funding.

    How long would it take to build something like this?

    Even if he gets another tenure, my gut instinct is that he cant finish this in 6 years!

    And when the Democrats get in (which they invariably will), will they finish it, or just pull it down?
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 17,458

  16. The Geezer

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 13, 2010

    Posts: 1,921

    The point is he gets his legacy regardless of how long it takes to build or effective it is.
     
  17. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 3,816

    So, was Trump's campaign chant, "Carry on Obama's plan"? Or something else?

    So funny watching the revisioning.
     
  18. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,169

    Probably not that long if they use Mexican builders as I hear they are quite hard workers.
     
  19. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 62,633

    Location: Wish i was in New York

    Exactly, Trump is too stupid to come up with any plan, he is only good at slogans that his base all eat up.

    Lock her up!
    Build that wall!

    The ironic thing is that the way is going he is going to get his wish and locked up behind a wall himself.
     
  20. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 62,633

    Location: Wish i was in New York

    Has there ever been a President with so much dirt and crap come out, ever?

    Play this much golf, watch this much TV and be influenced so much by the far right media in his policy
    The constant lies, all on tape by the way, you can prove him lied by his own very words from crowd sizes to Norway sweeping their forest to national security issues.
    So many turn over of staff…best ever people my ass. He has like 6 "Acting" secretary in his cabinet.
    Cancel White House Press Conferences because they are too embarrassed in getting caught in the lies
    Appointing his family into senior positions
    The payment to porn stars
    The affairs (yes I am aware Clinton and JFK did that too)
    The Special Prosecutor (Nixon, good company there)
    The Russia inquiry
    3 of his senior staff are arrested/jailed
    His personal lawyer is convicted and incriminated Trump in the payment for campaign funds
    FBI investigation into whether he is an agent for Russia
    The longest ever shutdown ever under a President

    Can you imagine Obama did half of these? Yet the only thing they really had him on was that he was born in Kenya, that Trump made up which Trump admitted he was WRONG. Another lie.

    How can anyone still support him?