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The Trump presidency

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by datalol-jack, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,123

    There's a thread doing the rounds on the usual social media of witness reports from the immigrant internment camps. I can't link it at work, but immigrant women and children are being tortured, starved and kept in conditions that would qualify as cruelty to animals. They are officially known as "bodies" rather than "people". And that's only at the camps people are allowed to visit. The immigrants are being moved to military camps with no access to lawyers or international observers.

    In summary: Dachau just got rebuilt on American soil, with the knowledge of and by the instruction of the Trump administration.
     
  2. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,873

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Why does he have white eyes and an orange face....WHY!
     
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    I wonder where the trump supporters are? Can't find a way to deflect concentration camps can we? That's unfortunate.

    Double digits? Well that's awkward, i didn't think he'd be able to command that, guess they're really tired of this buffoon they'd rather have this old creepy ******* instead.
     
  4. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    So you're saying there is a crisis on the US southern border like Trump keeps saying (and Democrats keep saying there isn't) and that maybe there should be emergency measures taking like Trump wants?
     
  5. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 13,547

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    Neat trick, that. Cause a crisis, and then use said crisis to enact emergency measures. Wonder which dictator's play-by-play manual he plucked that one out from?
     
  6. The Geezer

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 13, 2010

    Posts: 2,009

    Is this that 4D-Chess we keep hearing about or is it just more mental gymnastics to defend the indefensible ?
     
  7. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,749

    Honestly it's not World War 2 anymore, do you really think in this day and age anything like that would stay secret for even a few days? For all their faults the yanks are fairly good about due process. Since the 60's soldiers have had a legal duty to uphold the constitution even if it's against orders, it would take hundreds if not thousands of people to disregard their humanity and legal duty. That just doesn't sound plausible in this day and age. Look at Abu Ghraib, wrong was done but it couldn't be hidden.
     
  8. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Trump didn't create the number of migrants turning up at the Southern border, did he? He hasn't reduced funding for border security has he? So how is trouble dealing with the large numbers of people trying to illegally enter the US something that Trump caused? Magic? Time travel?
     
  9. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    He might not have but his predecessors definitely had a hand in Central and South American politics which could even go as far as implicit criminal activity. Trump may not be at fault, but he's definitely abused illegal immigrants himself within his own business, and frankly i imagine he still does. As well the same foreign policy hawks that have been there for decades are currently in the position of power, not to say the democrats aren't also just as bad, but to be fair the parties have changed over time.

    The Dem's are still useless by and large, but largely keep up a healthy veneer of professionalism, the GOP have completely collapsed into destroying their country because they know their demographic is disappearing, don't even bother pretending anymore.

    Regardless immigration was going down under Obama and the Dem's are in agreement about border control, just not retarded border control that wastes money that the GOP have splashed on a almost completely useless tax 'cut' on what i can only assume is to grease contractors bums, rather than actually doing anything about some farcical wall. That is also before trying to steal the money from other departments, the Pentagon is something you don't steal from, how Trump's advisors didn't tell him this is beyond me.
     
  10. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,491

    Location: Panting like a fiend

    The Crisis trump has created is to lock every one up, immediately, seperate them from their children, not keeping track of who came over with who, not making any provisions for change in policy (IE more spaces in detention centers), not making sure the detention centres have facilities for long term stays as opposed to very short term ones, using unsuitable facilities for overnight/weeks long stays (facilities only intended for a few hours), no provision for proper medical care, no provision for access to proper legal representation, absolute third world farces (actually I'm being unfair to much of the third world here) of court appearances where toddlers are being asked if they understand that they're waiving their rights when they can't even read (and in some cases speak)...
    They're being denied rights afforded to them under US law, let alone international law.

    So yes, Trump has caused this, he's thrown out the system and proceedures that were working reasonably well/far better even when under higher loads, and created a mess that would, if it happened in much of the rest of the world, have the American government decrying it and looking to take measures against those other governments.

    This is a mess that is probably going to take years/decades to clear up, not that that will help the people that have died because there is no proper medical supervision and people are having their medications (including things like insulin) taken off them routinely and then not getting to see a medical proffessional for days/weeks, and even when people are in obvious need of very basic, but life saving things like water none is given.

    They're treating people worse than animals, and most of these people despite the Trump supporting idiots claims, these people have in many/most cases not actually committed a crime, as crossing the border to seak asylum isn't illegal, as under US law they can present themselves to the authorities inside the US - and despite what some idiots claim, you can't claim asylum for the most part by presenting yourself at an American embasy in most of the countries these people are coming from, and even when they do present themselves at the border checkpoints (as the idiots claim they always should) they're not getting the basic hearings/treatment they, under US law are required to be given.

    In terms of the US's reputation around the world, the OLOTUS and his little band of scum and grifters have basically undone a century or more of good will, and thrown away America's reputation for being one of the few countries in the world where you could make a deal with them, and they'd generally keep it even when leaders changed, as at the moment you can't make a deal with the US and expect the President to keep it for a week.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    Well too bad it's not the soldiers doing it, it's Trumps personal SS (exaggerating, shoot me), ICE Employees, he's filled it with Yes men and frankly you only join it if you hate immigrants.

    He even told them not to listen to Congress or the law for ***** sake, several in detention have died as it is from lack of medical attention, i imagine the employees had a little laugh when they got home, dehumanisation is a rather sordid tactic and Trump has used it since the beginning of his campaign, no doubt will use it again when the Presidentials heat up.

    Thank **** he's currently losing to Biden and Sanders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  12. Werewolf

    Commissario

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,491

    Location: Panting like a fiend

    Yup

    Without any outside oversight even from members of the government.
    The military are specifically trained and taught about illegal orders and have a very specific and well organised system to ensure that they don't do things that are illegal, and when they do there are ways for it to be reported and investigated (something Trump apparently hates), if just because it helps unit discipline, professionalism, and protects the government and country to some extent from any part of the military going "rogue".

    ICE and Border Patrol have had a terrible reputation for a long time in regards to how they treat people (IIRC more than their fair share of murderers and rapists), and it's getting worse as under Trumps watch they know that they're expected to make it as nasty and painful as possible for anyone to enter the US, and they've seen how Trump has pardoned people who have killed prisoners.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  13. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    The Obama administration brought that in.

    Much of that is distortion and where it isn't it was the same under Obama. Democrats have blocked Trump's attempts to send more resources to border security to the extent that he ended up using an executive order and declaring an emergency in order to do so. Dems declared there wasn't an emergency and this was illegitimate. Yet you keep on making the case for why we should consider it an emergency.

    This is just you making up things that sound good to you. For a start, Trump actually started enforcing laws and procedures that had been de facto abandoned. "Higher loads" doesn't stand up as the numbers have been increasing in recent years following revolution in Honduras and economic failure in Guatamala. These people head into Mexico and Mexico has been funnelling them straight through North into the USA. In addition to high numbers, the character of immigrants has changed significantly. Before the financial crisis the usual illegal border crosser was a single adult male from Mexico looking for work. In recent years that's shifted significantly towards families and people arriving with children. That's why the Obama administration implemented implemented new policies for separating out children which you so object to. There's a large problem with people bringing children with them on the dangerous trip because they believe it will get them access to the USA. And under Obama that was actually true. The detention facilities that existed were primarily set up with adults in mind (primarily male, as discussed). So when people with children arrived at the under-resourced facilities, staff frequently let them go on after a short period of detention. Now you get people bringing children that aren't even there's to take advantage of that. And there's good reasons why children might be separated: because it's not suitable to have young children housed in an adult prison and because often they need special care. Recall the case of that poor little girl who died after her father dragged her for days through the countryside with no water. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

    This nonsense about migrants being tortured or denied water has to stop. The people deterred have access to water. Or are you referring to the supply stops that some activists create in the deserts encouraging people to try and cross lethal terrain in the expectation they'll come across one of these ad hoc supply drops. That little girl who died from exhaustion and dehydration was one such person brought through the desert. There are arguments for and against those supply stations but in any case, Trump didn't start that. It's been going on for around twenty years..
     
  14. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 752

    Location: London, UK

    Why shouldn't Khan comment on Trump when he was talking about banning Muslims and then made some stupid comment that Khan would be exempt from any ban. Its not like Khan was the only leader to come out and criticise the ban is it. Then there was Trump purposely taking Khan's comments out of context that Londoners shouldn't be alarmed about more police numbers on the streets. His tweets trying to say Khan said we shouldn't be alarmed at the attacks was disgraceful. Plenty of idiots believed his tweets as well rather than checking exactly what Khan had said. The man is vile to his core.

    Have you even read any of the numerous statements from women who have claimed Trump assaulted them? Trying to make out that his comment about essentially sexually assaulting women, which is what "grabbing them by the pussy" is after all is all that Meghan Markle was basing her opinion on is laughable. Let's remember this is a man who defended Jeffrey Epstein the child rapist and trafficker, used to party with Jeffrey Epstein and has as a cabinet secretary the prosecutor who cut a ridiculously light deal for Jeffery Epstein that is now under investigation and will hopefully be thrown out.

    As for Khan, I would imagine these comments from Trump are doing him a massive favour. Trump is probably the most disliked leader to visit the UK in my 48 year life. Any spat with him probably helps get Khan re-elected.

    Are you really trying to tell me that Hopkins doesn't use racist tropes? That it pretty much all she does. That is her thing. Trump loves a racist trope himself.

    As for Khan being a rubbish mayor, that is just your opinion. Is he perfect? No far from it but neither was Livingston and Boris was far from perfect. At least Khan didn't spend tax payers money buying water canons that are illegal to use and had to be sold for scrap. Nice waste of public money there, thanks Boris. The whole of the UK has a knife crime problem and yet people want to blame it all on Khan. May is responsible for slashing police numbers and for the terrible moral in the police service. If Khan had full control over the budget for the MET I'd be the first to critise him but he doesn't. The Tories are to blame for this rise nationwide, not the London Mayor. And Trump criticising crime here when compared to the US its like a well behaved kinder garden is beyond a joke.

    Edit: and let's not forget the £200m + Boris wasted on the Olympic Stadium as it was converted to a football stadium for West Ham at the tax payers expense. He green lighted that deal and it was a terrible deal for the tax payer and remains one to this day.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  15. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 752

    Location: London, UK

    double post**
     
  16. neckbeardthethird

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 9, 2018

    Posts: 829

    They were doing it under Bush long before Obama got into office, the zero-tolerance policy is a trump thing though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  17. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 19,623

    Location: London

    Obama brought that in, been going on for 20 years and Trump didn't start it. That's quite the full circle.
     
  18. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 752

    Location: London, UK

  19. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Trump is sending another 1,000 troops to the Middle East because something something Iran.

    Remember when we were told 'Don't vote for Hillary, she's a warmonger'?

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 4,014

    Trump fan, and big favourite of many pro-Trumpers here, Alex Jones has a new conspiracy - that the Sandy Hook parents used malware to plant the child porn found on his servers...