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The Trump presidency

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by datalol-jack, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Flibster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 31,430

  2. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,510

    So you confirm that Trump's tariffs aren't hurting China like he wanted, so why moan about what the EU is forced to do?
     
  3. The Geezer

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 13, 2010

    Posts: 2,224

    You can be as snide as you like, if you responded to the body of my original point about Trump looking to take down the Chinese economy as part of his 'Tariff War' then we can debate.

    I fully understand the government bonds / gilts market. My point was flooding the market with US bonds (debt) devalues the dollar.
     
  4. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    NK. Difficult, it's gonna a slow process, but it's undeniable that a dialogue has opened up which wasn't there before, constant harassment by the media has probably sidetracked Trump on this issue. Read 38North for recent articles on it.

    The US economy is one of the strongest in the world. How is it protectionism when the US deficit has been decreasing with many other countries? Exports have got higher, they started to become protectionist with regards to energy, that's not a bad thing though. There is going to a global downturn, it doesn't matter what Trump does, that's been in the making for 20 years, Trump will be thinking, well we might as well fight during the downturn rather than do nothing. Average pay has been steadily growing at over 4% which is pretty good compared to say, the UK/Germany/France, Pelosi should put the USMCA to the floor as it would increase the min wage to $16 an hour, she doesn't want to though, as it'll be a political win for Trump. Go read about it.
    China needs to be tackled, Trump is brave for doing it, there is only short term pain for the administration, no short term political win at all, but there is a potential long term win, whoever is president in 15 years time will benefit. Obama kicked that can down the road..
    Read this book, i've just started it.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stealth-Wa...?keywords=stealth+china&qid=1571404484&sr=8-1
    You all said Trump would be impeached due to Russia, i was just playing by the basic rule of innocent til proven guilty. I was proven correct. Nothing happened.
    I never said Turkey won't kill any Kurds, that's a huge misrepresentation and massively simplistic view of it, 15m Kurdish people live in Turkey, i had issue with people saying there is gonna be a massive Kurdish genocide. It's the PKK which Turkey are going after, who happen to be Kurdish, the PKK are on the EU/UK & US's terror watch list.
    Obama did add 10t to the debt, or pretty much anyway.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepa...ts-been-where-its-going-and-why/#31f691c37a25
    but it's the FED that controls that..
    Trump's stock market from 2016 did add $6t to the capitalisation, the conversation about how a stock market is interlinked with the economy is for another day.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,510

    What a load ****.

    His tariffs are likely to cost him. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bu...llen-dramatically-doesn-t-mean-china-n1015756 (i was remembering old data)

    20 year recession? What? there was one 11 years ago.

    Wage increases are half that because of inflation and frankly... https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...rs-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

    Trump is on course to spend as much as Obama (for no bloody reason) https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...mpared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2?r=US&IR=T
    May i ******* remind you that Bush (along with republican support) was forced to save the car companies and the banking sector, how PRAY TELL could he have done that by not spending?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008

    How the **** is that Obama's fault? https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckj...-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#b39cac019172

    Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  6. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html
    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5880.html
    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4120.html
    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html
    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html
    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

    What's happening with deficits here?

    The current financial problems stem from the dot.com bubble, not 08 actually.

    Wages - depends what data you look at. But generally speaking, wages are growing at a quicker rate than previously.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/wall-street-journal-99-get-bigger-raise/
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  7. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,636

    Location: London

    Offf what a minefield which I will have to unpack later but lets start with a simple one. You literally did say that..
    One of the strongest economies in the world? It's the largest economy in the world not that should be a metric of how well your average American is doing. The trade deficit has increased with some countries though has started to decline with China and others so a mixed bag at best. As for the rest of the economy - you think it's a good sign when you're borrowing ~$1tn during a period of expansion? Or that the US national debt has increased to $22tn when Trump said he would eliminate it? Seeing as you like the stock market as a metric....

     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  8. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    ... they are not going to be killing 'the kurds' coz that would mean killing 15m people in their own country.
     
  9. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,510

    You're beyond repair, you lambast Obama for inheriting someone elses mess and think Trump is cool even though he had no mess at all but is still spending like there is one.
     
  10. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    Can you not see the deficits decreasing?
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,510

    I'm talking about the US deficit in general, i made a mistake trade deficit wise (it is technically decreasing), but it ultimately didn't matter because the losses from a recession will wipe out any gain trump might of farcically made, you just want to deflect from that by pooping out some a dead cat about the dotcom bubble.

    You never would have been this kind to Obama or Bush or bloody anyone other than Trump, it'll always be someone else's fault for Trump's godly creation to not exist.

    Heres the UK wage growth currently at ~3.8%
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12196322 - the inflation of 1.9% and you get an actual growth of 1.9%.

    Lets look at the US. I cant find "current data" June has it at 4% and inflation has it being 1.7 so actual growth of 2.3%... hardly massively different like you claimed. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ted-to-4-percent-over-the-year-300890012.html

    Though perhaps this is more accurate... https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2019/r...ent-from-september-2018-to-september-2019.htm
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  12. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    You are not making any sense.

    What am i deflecting from? We were talking about the deficit, its clear you don't know what you're talking about tbh

    The dot.com era and current debt problems is a different matter entirely
     
  13. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    it would be helpful if people stop editing their posts after i've already replied.
     
  14. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    Completely lost trail of thought now, no idea where to start. Pointless!
    You lads have literally just done whatever that dead cat bounce thing is about, flooded your edited posts with so much info it's impossible to have a coherent convo
     
  15. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,636

    Location: London

    How convenient. It can be a bit of annoyance at times but hardly a reason not to back up your largely baseless claims or engage.

    Edit - Huckabee Sanders v2 is fully engaged in her mental gymnastics.

    Running off to Fox & Friends to defend the indefensible.
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,510

    Well in any event a recession has not been brewing for 20 years it's been brewing since the last one which was 2007-2009, that cannot be disputed.

    Obama's deficit was almost entirely due to said recession (Bailouts) and it's effects (Stimulus) and you blame it on him with your attempt to make Trump look better (pro tip Trump didn't inherent a recession and yet blasted trillions anyway).

    Actions on China can't be known for awhile in any event, but all evidence points towards hastening a recession regardless and making products more expensive for Americans (regardless of how short time it may or may not be).

    He's constantly praised dictators while lambasting allies, still nothing about North Korea (ergo South Korea), Chinese atrocities, Turkish atrocities (they've definately killed innocent unarmed people), no response to Iran whatsoever (ergo **** Israel?), not willing to gain allies in the ME but totally fine if they have dirt or power over you to bend over for them.

    The list is honestly endless, but Trump is apparently a genius and it'll all work out if people just let him continue to destroy the US's foundations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  17. Trusty

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 12, 2006

    Posts: 10,543

    Location: On A Rocket

    A major major recession has been brewing for 20 years, Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard in the early 70's..

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/households-debt-to-gdp

    Look at when the threshold of 60% was broken.. Just before 2000.

    I didn't blame it on Obama, look at my original post, i said the FED was in control.

    Actions on China are essential, it would just be kicking the can down the road again, seriously, read this book, it's very enlightening.
    https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-War-China-While-Americas/dp/0593084349

    Foreign policy, meh, the US foreign policy has been rubbish for years, nothing new there i suppose. He tries to act tough with Turkey, he's criticised, he butters them up, he's criticised, there won't be any winning with any of it.

    I definitely don't think Trump is a genius, you are putting words in my mouth, i've never said that, plenty of things about him grate on me, but he's doing some useful stuff which just isn't being reported the way it should, fake news media is kinda true tbh.
     
  18. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,636

    Location: London

    1. North Korea - your original claim (16 months ago) and follow up (today) below:
    Except there have been numerous attempts at dialogue with them. What has Kim got from Trump? A US president to visit him, exponentially more exposure, a temporary halt on military exercises and absolutely no blow back from his current series of missile tests (despite breaching UN resolutions) including an alleged submarine launch. What has Trump got for this? The return of some US soldier's bodies and Otto Warmbier and some nicely written letters. I fail to see how this is Trump utilising tactics a ghost writer wrote and is anything but a failure
     
  19. JRS

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 6, 2004

    Posts: 14,189

    Location: Burton-on-Trent

    Okay. D'you stand by what you were saying earlier in the year about him though?

     
  20. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 22,893

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    I can see the government debt blowing out, which is weird because Trump promised to pay it all off in his first term.

    What happened there, can you explain it to me?