Why don't YOU read my opening post, there's a good lad
I did - doesn't look like you did
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The Truth About Corporate Tax Dodging, BBC 1, Monday May 14th @ 8:30pm
- Thread starter stockhausen
- Start date
I did - doesn't look like you did
Soldato
ok brb
It's just corporate welfare really, if all of these loopholes were closed corporations can just shut up shop and go where it's cheaper.. but then jobs are being outsourced overseas where it's cheaper anyway so it's lose-lose for the tax payer either way.
If small businesses hadn't been driven out of business or gobbled up by these multinational corporations we wouldn't be so reliant on them, but that's sort an inevitibility of capitalism.
If small businesses hadn't been driven out of business or gobbled up by these multinational corporations we wouldn't be so reliant on them, but that's sort an inevitibility of capitalism.
Soldato
I do love the "It's OK as long as you aren't rich" mentality that goes along with tax avoidance. If a "normal person" does what they can to pay as little tax as possible he's "fighting the man" but when a multi million pound company does it they are "greedy and immoral".
Saying that however I agree there should be limits, at the moment it is certainly far too easy and far too effective for big companies to avoid massive amounts of tax in this country.
Saying that however I agree there should be limits, at the moment it is certainly far too easy and far too effective for big companies to avoid massive amounts of tax in this country.
Suspended
This IMO is the problem with a lot of international tax and EU issues.
I would simply legislate that all income within the UK has to be taxed as a UK business and money earn't outside the UK does not. IE you can base a multinational here and not pay tax for revenue earned in Luxembourg for example.
Then the business tax rate as I have suggested elsewhere is charged based on a scale inversly proportional to value added within the UK. IE import finished goods means little UK value added, high tax on profits, manufacture in UK means adding high value in UK and hence lower tax rate.
Dealing with companies who would attempt to minimise profit with unfair transfer pricing isn't exactly hard to clamp down on.
I would simply legislate that all income within the UK has to be taxed as a UK business and money earn't outside the UK does not. IE you can base a multinational here and not pay tax for revenue earned in Luxembourg for example.
Then the business tax rate as I have suggested elsewhere is charged based on a scale inversly proportional to value added within the UK. IE import finished goods means little UK value added, high tax on profits, manufacture in UK means adding high value in UK and hence lower tax rate.
Dealing with companies who would attempt to minimise profit with unfair transfer pricing isn't exactly hard to clamp down on.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
They are a PRIVATE organisation. Why should the first duty not be to the owners?
We would lose all the tax that we don't get - SHOCKING
No you'd lose all the tax their workers pay plus any tax on goods bought by the company or any jobs that depend on the company but are in 3rd party firms.
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I guess that it wouldn't really help your assertion if you posted my opinion, would it?
Jjust to clarify:
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[TW]Fox;21891035 said:
I am not disagreeing with you here, but if we drop ours lower than they have I would bet quite a bit they will lower again.
Its basically free money for them, look at the country, other than legal tax avoidance why would multinationals base there.
The tax revenue gained per capita from this must be very high. With their low population even £10M tax revenue from multinats based there would be better than nothing.
I suspect the UK will not be able to compete in raw tax rate compared to Lux, we should have advantages in some other areas but a business will simply evaluate and quantify those to itself and then base its decision on where to base itself.
As much as I hate the term as I think its spouted constantly in the wrong areas and contexts this really could be "a race to the bottom" on corporation tax rates.
Won't happen, any large corporation where the owners are detached from the decisions wastes money, the public sector is no different.
In that case I'm not too bothered about our Governement taking billions more from companies to waste that as well.
Soldato
The same.
Soldato
What winds me up is the apparent blurring of tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is working within the rules to pay as little tax as REQUIRED. Tax evasion is just plain illegal.
Do you think most people would like to pay more tax because morally they should? maybe all the strikers out yesterday should consider that morally they should accept the changes to their conditions they have been given? The fact they are out on the street would suggest they do not.
I pay the amount of tax I am due - no more, no less
The companies above do the same
Do you think most people would like to pay more tax because morally they should? maybe all the strikers out yesterday should consider that morally they should accept the changes to their conditions they have been given? The fact they are out on the street would suggest they do not.
I pay the amount of tax I am due - no more, no less
The companies above do the same
Soldato
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Two blokes down the pub....
Bob: Alright mate, have you seen all these CDs I got from Amazon? They're much cheaper than HMV coz they ship them from Jersey or some-fing
Jim: Cool mate, they look good. Here, I've got those 400 fags you wanted me to get from me holiday.
Bob: Oh thanks, here's your £40.....I'm a bit skint at the moment though as I've stuck all my savings in an ISA.
Jim: Oh that'll come in handy one day..........'ere have you seen this in The Sun, Phillip Green has been caught avoiding tax!
Bob: What a bar steward!!!!!
The moral of the story, we all avoid tax whereever possible, it's just some people have the ability to do it on a bigger scale.
Bob: Alright mate, have you seen all these CDs I got from Amazon? They're much cheaper than HMV coz they ship them from Jersey or some-fing
Jim: Cool mate, they look good. Here, I've got those 400 fags you wanted me to get from me holiday.
Bob: Oh thanks, here's your £40.....I'm a bit skint at the moment though as I've stuck all my savings in an ISA.
Jim: Oh that'll come in handy one day..........'ere have you seen this in The Sun, Phillip Green has been caught avoiding tax!
Bob: What a bar steward!!!!!
The moral of the story, we all avoid tax whereever possible, it's just some people have the ability to do it on a bigger scale.
Caporegime
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It's funny, people make a big hoohah about it, Labour bang on about it constantly... WHEN THEY AREN'T IN POWER.
Difference is Labour's political stance is, rich people should pay more horrible torries and tax dodging, horrible lot then, their MP's all do it, they do NOTHING about it in their decade in power then they complain about it(after plunging us into huge debt which wouldn't be as bad if they'd collected the tax over the past decade) to make a political point.
Tories however, stand up and say the country needs big business, need to encourage them to stay and that our economy would be absolutely **** up without them.
So one of our political party does nothing about it, lies about their agenda, promises to change things, while all actively tax dodging themselves, the other party says, we can't lose big business.
Yet people will blame the tories and praise Labour for being "against" tax dodging.
I forget was it the Tory London mayor candidate that dodged tax and the Labour guy who paid 50% tax rate??? No wait, that's right it was the Tory candidate that paid 50% tax and the Labour guy who both avoided tax AND wanted to increase public spending(while avoiding contributing himself as much as possible).
Some companies, Amazon, should have loopholes closed, if we can get GSK to pay more, fine, if we push them to a point where its cheaper to move and hire abroad we lose out. Not just on corporation tax, but on the thousands of employee's who all pay tax, and with thousands less jobs available thats thousands more on benefits.
We can't afford to lose a company like GSK, while we CAN get Amazon to pay tax, because ultimately Amazon have profit to be made in the UK, it would be less high if they paid tax, but profit none the less and they'll go for it.
Amazon are essentially a reseller, every country needs stores like it, they aren't unique while GSK provide a worldwide product and can sell it from anywhere.
The fine line between peeing them off and pushing them out and getting fair tax is, well, a fine line, not least because you can't have a law that basically means they can pay say 10% tax and ASK them to pay 15% without changing the law. However a law change to force them to pay 15%, might push 10 other companies to a point where they would leave the UK.
Had their been no loopholes to start with......... well, the problem with that is politicians, lords, who own businesses and who have friends with businesses writing such tax laws which would make them pay more tax.... corruption from the top down is basically unfightable.
Difference is Labour's political stance is, rich people should pay more horrible torries and tax dodging, horrible lot then, their MP's all do it, they do NOTHING about it in their decade in power then they complain about it(after plunging us into huge debt which wouldn't be as bad if they'd collected the tax over the past decade) to make a political point.
Tories however, stand up and say the country needs big business, need to encourage them to stay and that our economy would be absolutely **** up without them.
So one of our political party does nothing about it, lies about their agenda, promises to change things, while all actively tax dodging themselves, the other party says, we can't lose big business.
Yet people will blame the tories and praise Labour for being "against" tax dodging.
I forget was it the Tory London mayor candidate that dodged tax and the Labour guy who paid 50% tax rate??? No wait, that's right it was the Tory candidate that paid 50% tax and the Labour guy who both avoided tax AND wanted to increase public spending(while avoiding contributing himself as much as possible).
Some companies, Amazon, should have loopholes closed, if we can get GSK to pay more, fine, if we push them to a point where its cheaper to move and hire abroad we lose out. Not just on corporation tax, but on the thousands of employee's who all pay tax, and with thousands less jobs available thats thousands more on benefits.
We can't afford to lose a company like GSK, while we CAN get Amazon to pay tax, because ultimately Amazon have profit to be made in the UK, it would be less high if they paid tax, but profit none the less and they'll go for it.
Amazon are essentially a reseller, every country needs stores like it, they aren't unique while GSK provide a worldwide product and can sell it from anywhere.
The fine line between peeing them off and pushing them out and getting fair tax is, well, a fine line, not least because you can't have a law that basically means they can pay say 10% tax and ASK them to pay 15% without changing the law. However a law change to force them to pay 15%, might push 10 other companies to a point where they would leave the UK.
Had their been no loopholes to start with......... well, the problem with that is politicians, lords, who own businesses and who have friends with businesses writing such tax laws which would make them pay more tax.... corruption from the top down is basically unfightable.
Soldato
I also heard some labour muppet on the radio the other day say that the top tax rate should be 75%.
So how many of those top earners are going to give three quarters of their money away in tax when it would be cheaper to hop on a plane and Foxtrot Oscar to somewhere sunnier for starters and with the bonus of that they get to keep their money
So how many of those top earners are going to give three quarters of their money away in tax when it would be cheaper to hop on a plane and Foxtrot Oscar to somewhere sunnier for starters and with the bonus of that they get to keep their money
And my point is why is tax avoidance immoral? Companies are morally obligated to do the best for their shareholders, which includes tax avoidance.