This is getting ridiculous (energy prices - Strictly NO referrals!)

Soldato
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Yes you are right but that’s not the point. It’s still my money I have no problem helping out the needy, I have no problem excepting we have issues in Ukraine which has brought about certain phenomena. Those that are ultimately responsible be it, the top brass at the failed businesses or ofgem have been financially penalised for this? I want all of their dividends and bonuses recouped and put towards the bill. I want those that already have more than enough to suffer like the rest of us are going to be.

Well, technically we are all (well, above a certain age) responsible for it for repeatedly voting in governments who haven't put the necessary policies in place. ;)
 
Soldato
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Well, technically we are all (well, above a certain age) responsible for it for repeatedly voting in governments who haven't put the necessary policies in place. ;)
If you voted you mean :p. Do you not think this is wrong. Those that get paid enormous sums at the top of these institutions never face any kind of financial penalties like we repeatedly have to accept.
 
Soldato
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If you voted you mean :p. Do you not think this is wrong. Those that get paid enormous sums at the top of these institutions never face any kind of financial penalties like we repeatedly have to accept.

If you could have voted and didn't then that's just as bad to be honest!

Yes it is wrong, but sadly that is the capitalist society we live in, and it's going to take a huge population wide attitude shift to change that - I'm not sure something as "trivial" as high energy prices are enough to trigger it.
 
Soldato
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If you could have voted and didn't then that's just as bad to be honest!
It’s not but that’s a different conversation.

It’s part of the reason I don’t vote none of them offer anything I like. None of them deliver upon what they say. None of them have any substance. But again that’s a different conversation.
 
Soldato
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If you voted you mean :p. Do you not think this is wrong. Those that get paid enormous sums at the top of these institutions never face any kind of financial penalties like we repeatedly have to accept.
There is no accountability. The people in charge of these things earn their couple hundred k a year, take their golden handshake pension having never really achieved anything.
 
Soldato
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The customers with those bust companies had credit balances, to the tune of £1.8bn. So it’s completely different to your examples.
should we be paying - probably not, but it needs to come from somewhere.

Basically, Ofgem messed up by giving Supplier Licenses to anyone, not ensuring they enough financial backing and allowing them to use next day prices to operate their business.

It wasn't lost credit balances we are financing ... at root, they couldn't afford the energy, supposedly some lack of hedging ...
as to why the last men standing have survived, this can still be through better relationships with their parent companies to provide the energy, even at a loss compared to wholesale rates, if shell energy uk says we can't afford 30pKw/h, shell PLC can say OK we'll sell it to you at 20pKW/h and just put the price up for the other customers on this limited resource,
a short term 'loss' on the shell trading organisation, to keep shell energy at the table, for future profit. - machiavellian.

and Octopus is bidding on bulb to re-enforce it's position at the table.

eg. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...ponsible-bulb-left-taxpayers-2bn-energy-bill/
 
Caporegime
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It doesn't have to be. Ive used water as the example before so I'll do it again.

We extract our own water and we supply it to our own people at regulated prices.

Why cant we make our own energy and sell it to our own people at regulated prices?

Yes but if water cost 10x as much to extract, then treat and distribute, that's what it would cost. And we'd have to pay it.

The water companies still make profit
 
Soldato
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Yes but if water cost 10x as much to extract, then treat and distribute, that's what it would cost. And we'd have to pay it.

The water companies still make profit
It's not a traded product subject to the whims of global speculators.

Energy is traded. But doesnt have to be. We could just look after our own people with our own energy, couldn't we?

Costs wouldn't go through wild swings if we had our own stable supply for our own people. And companies can still make a reasonable profit on that.
 
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Soldato
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It’s challenging to keep up with the price cap update in October - Ofgem have tweaked the calculation, which makes it more expensive !!

The latest is :
- Gas prices to rise 94%
- Electricity prices to rise 71%

Meaning the average bill is expected to be £3,687 in October, £4,400 from January and £4,700 from April :eek:

Source :

52266926058_89258000d1_c.jpg

Do you have a direct link for this please out of interest? Seeing loads of people quote them on twitter or in news articles but no-one directly linking them
 
Soldato
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It's not a traded product subject to the whims of global speculators.

Energy is traded. But doesnt have to be. We could just look after our own people with our own energy, couldn't we?

Costs wouldn't go through wild swings if we had our own stable supply for our own people. And companies can still make a reasonable profit on that.

Except we dont produce enough gas or elec to isolate ourselves and we cant rely on wind for electric because the generation varies so much.
 
Soldato
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Except we dont produce enough gas or elec to isolate ourselves and we cant rely on wind for electric because the generation varies so much.
Nuclear would have been the answer.

Yeah I know it's all hindsight but the point is that well paid people were meant to be in charge of this stuff. What have they done other than create this mess?
 
Soldato
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It's not a traded product subject to the whims of global speculators.

Energy is traded. But doesnt have to be. We could just look after our own people with our own energy, couldn't we?
It's a political choice. It's worked for decades but it's coming home to roost now.
Except we dont produce enough gas or elec to isolate ourselves and we cant rely on wind for electric because the generation varies so much.

So we use our own gas/wind/nuclear and buy the remainder on the market instead of paying gas prices for everything.
 
Soldato
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It’s challenging to keep up with the price cap update in October - Ofgem have tweaked the calculation, which makes it more expensive !!

The latest is :
- Gas prices to rise 94%
- Electricity prices to rise 71%

Meaning the average bill is expected to be £3,687 in October, £4,400 from January and £4,700 from April :eek:

Source :

52266926058_89258000d1_c.jpg
Forecasts through to the end of next year show the numbers will continue to be high
 
Soldato
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Sunny Torbaydos
Yeah I've seen those forcasts, and they are basically suggesting energy prices won't be back around the 1000-1200 mark until well beyond 2023, possibly even 2025 if at all. That would be catastrophic without intervention for a bulk of society.

At that rate and with inflation potentially hitting 15% this year, you'd need £25k just to afford the basic necessities, let alone have any form of comfort. Full time at the current NMW doesn't even come close to being enough.
 
Soldato
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So we use our own gas/wind/nuclear and buy the remainder on the market instead of paying gas prices for everything.
this is exactly right. even if we pay a relative fortune for the extra, it is bonkers that the renewables we cover ourselves cost is dictated by what we need to import. this way also would encourage everyone to build infrastructure to generate their own
 
Caporegime
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If these prices (and they easily could) hit 4k+ and continue.. Bleak times ahead.
It will send Europe back in time.

People will die in droves as job losses mount as no one has any money. You can't just magic that amount of money up.

Could be biggest change in standard of living in modern times




We should have been building nuclear for years. Many have said it. We can't use the 'in hindsight now we know" card on this one. We didn't do it as we are all short sighted and only think of what's cheap now.



I still pedal it. But if they had given that 100bln for hs2 as energy saving grants pushed across all UK housing things wouldn't be half as bad now.

Crank that to 200bln and everyone could have an 8k grant
 
Soldato
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HS2 was yet another London centric nonsense waste of money, saving 30 mins or what ever on a trip to London when that money could have improved the infrastructure country wide. I don't think it would ever have been used for energy saving grants (tho it would have been great if they did) but our entire rail network could do with improving.... not just a jaunt to London
 
Soldato
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The 'Shire'
HS2 was yet another London centric nonsense waste of money, saving 30 mins or what ever on a trip to London when that money could have improved the infrastructure country wide. I don't think it would ever have been used for energy saving grants (tho it would have been great if they did) but our entire rail network could do with improving.... not just a jaunt to London
Who even likes going to London?!?
 
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