This is getting ridiculous (energy prices - Strictly NO referrals!)

[Curlyriff]

Must be a troll, however i have to question what you are using to type? PC or Phone because aren't they made of plastics ect.. that burn fossil fuels (Eco Warrior spouting that cars are bad but yet has tv's, computers electronics that cause fossil fuels is what i call a hypocrite).

But more to your point about cars the issue is that people cannot afford to use public transport so they have no choice and secondly doesn't Busses use more pollution? also with people on the bread line they cannot afford to get to work with addition to the fuel crisis. Yes i buy a coffee and we pay our bills on time, however i feel for people who cannot afford food on the table and having to choose between heating their household or struggling.

I think October will be a worry including myself our Gas and Electric estimated bill is £2900! i hate to think what it will be in October.

In fairness buses don't overall. Especially newer fleet (last 5-10yr) which a lot are hybrid buses. It does have to assume that a bus is being utilised on average at 50% capacity for that to make sense so generally public transport compared to car usage will be better if it is possible. Just the fact it cost too much, the service isn't wide spread enough and is too slow for the most part.

 

[Uther]

In fairness buses don't overall. Especially newer fleet (last 5-10yr) which a lot are hybrid buses. It does have to assume that a bus is being utilised on average at 50% capacity for that to make sense so generally public transport compared to car usage will be better if it is possible. Just the fact it cost too much, the service isn't wide spread enough and is too slow for the most part.

If only we had a bus more than once a day here lol.

 

[Curlyriff]

If only we had a bus more than once a day here lol.

Indeed, or the route from town to town doesn't take 2h because it goes through 20 villages and no other alternative meaning a 25min trip becomes ridiculous.

 

[Haggisman]

Wow, what a long thread.

I wonder how many people complaining have debts, stuff on finance, a car they probably don't need, and buy **** coffee every morning at £2 a cup.

Yup, couple of credit cards on 0% which are well within manageable limits and will be paid off before the 0% period ends, nothing on finance (unless you count mortgage), I spend £15 every 2 months on coffee, and while you're right I don't "need" a car, not having one and needing to quit work because I can't actually get there would probably impact my finances more than just keeping it.

Public transport is a non-starter considering it would cost me £15/day just for the train fare and an extra £20/day in childcare to cover the extra 3.5 hours/day, vs £3.50/day and ~20 mins each way to drive.

That's ignoring all of the other issues with using public transport (wouldn't be able to lug half the stuff around I do in a taxi, never mind a bus or train!).

I'm sure public transport is great if you live in London, with buses/tube every 5 minutes, but for anywhere else in the country it's just not practical the majority of the time.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I have 1 credit card with a balance under £1k which is 0% for 18 months to go. £100 DD on it will pay that off way before time limit. The other card I use daily is settled in full every month.

Then £20 sim only contract.
The car I own outright (albeit it drinks like a fish on premium)
I make my own coffee in the morning. I haven't eaten out for 2 months, and then before that was in November when i was on holiday.
Nothing on finance. My cameras, my guitars, my toys, all mine.

My most extravagant outlay is my BT Sport subscription which i am thinking of canceling when the football season ends.

I can be very frugal, if only I could resist buying gadgets !!!

 

[Brutal biff]

Get cracking on fracking
Open up the coal mines
Tell greta get ******

 

[theone8181]

Get cracking on fracking
Open up the coal mines
Tell greta get ******

Use gretas millions for heating and set fire to it?

 

[Energize]

I expect we can probably go higher on nuclear than where we are now, as we at a very low compared to historically and compared to france. Seems we just in the crap big time, what a mess, complete lack of forward planning from successive governments who cant think past the next election.

We have a confirmed 4x new 1.75GW EPR reactors, 2 at Hinkley C and 2 at Sizewell C. They will replace the 10 nuclear reactors that are being shut down in the next 6 years, the problem is Hinkley isn't expected to come online until 2026 and Sizewell hasn't even started construction yet! Sizewell B will probably be extended to at least 2050, but we need to provide more government funding for nuclear projects as capital cost is the number one stumbling block for nuclear developments.

 

[LabR@t]

Solar panels are a fallacy in the UK,, right? It takes decades to break even correct

 

[Angilion]

What’s your solution?

[..] What we could use right now is a time machine and starting serious work on the solution ~30 years ago when it should have started. Without that (and that's not going to happen, obviously), we're going to continue burning fuels while scrambling for new technology to create a viable solution. We have no other choice.

There isn't a solution. I thought I said that clearly.

EDIT: Yes, I did say it clearly:

[..] There isn't a solution. [..]

If I had a solution, I would be world famous by now. And I mean a solution that actually works. Not renewables, perpetual motion, magic free energy or any other such thing. Nikolai Tesla didn't invent a magic free energy machine (and never claimed to have done - some people just made that up long after he died). Nor does the magic energy water car exist. Or any of the other similar claims. Renewables aren't even actually renewable, but my biggest objection is the simple fact that they can't be made to work for all (or even most) power generation with any technology that exists or even might exist in the near future.

Of course, collapsing modern civilisation and killing almost everyone is technically a solution but it's not one I advocate.

Continue burning fossil fuels (as little as possible), build up nuclear fission (as much as possible), use renewables (as much as possible) and fund research devoted to finding a better solution as quickly as possible. That's the least bad option that I know of. If you have a better solution, please tell me what it is. And tell everyone else too. You'll be the most famous person in the world, praised world-wide and ludicrously rich if you want to be.

 

[Angilion]

Solar panels are a fallacy in the UK,, right? It takes decades to break even correct

Kind of viable to some extent in the south, but an expensive way of doing it and, like all renewables other than some forms of geothermal that aren't really renewable (but are long term), not at all viable as a means of generation for a functioning grid because they're not controllable or reliable or even very predictable. We could use them a bit, but not much. It might be partially viable on very small scales, small enough for storage to be a viable option, but that's all. It can't possibly be scaled up any further - we couldn't make enough panels and we couldn't make enough storage and neither of those things are actually recyclable in practice so it wouldn't be a long term solution anyway.

Wind is better here. Not good enough, but better. Same goes for tidal, which can also be used for protecting coastlines from erosion (by reducing waves). Renewables have a place in an energy strategy.

 

[SpeedFreak]

Solar panels are a fallacy in the UK,, right? It takes decades to break even correct

Probably 6-8 years are current energy prices if you're in the Midlands or lower, not decades.

 

[chrcoluk]

Probably 6-8 years are current energy prices if you're in the Midlands or lower, not decades.

Yeah usually in summer we have two weather patterns, the country is split in two, the westerlies hit the west or south west coast initially moving eastwards, then suddenly turn upwards, either north or north easterly direction, so you can basically draw a diagonal line like this over the UK for the weather patterns that exist 9 out of 10 summers. Last summer was the 1 in 10 where us in the bottom area get the rain and cooler air as well. The diagonal line would move somewhat depending on where the jetstream is, so might be bit more north and west than in the picture.

 

[crazyDAJT]

Solar panels are a fallacy in the UK,, right? It takes decades to break even correct

depends how much of what you generate you lose to the grid as you only get 4p for it.

Im getting around 4.5kw with an 8kwh battery installed for around £8.2K. Payback is around 8 years at new cap prices.

In addition to this I will be able to charge the battery at 7p / kWh when solar won’t cover the days usage (on average 12kwh per day not included the PHEV). This will save probably another £4-600 a year.

I will also be able to charge the PHEV and in the future EV via solar or at 7p.

my view is electric is going to be expenses for at least 5 years + and will get worse for at least 2 years.

the higher the price the quicker the payback.

solar is the most viable it’s been for years. The panels are so cheep now, most of the cost is the install Labour (you can’t DIY a grid tide system) a and battery storage.

as a engineer the battery feels so wasteful as the grid should be my battery. However the economy of small scale generation export are rubbish.

 

[413x]

I've ruled out solar.

Done some research and with
1) my west facing roof
2) probably only staying here
3) fixed at 22p kwh until August 2024

It just isn't worth it

 

[gpuerrilla]

my view is electric is going to be expenses for at least 5 years + and will get worse for at least 2 years.

the higher the price the quicker the payback.

This was my consensus also. Its not a great investment, however if you can use most of what you generate and the utility price keeps going up, the more sense it makes to get one sooner rather than later. Was kind of hoping more movement from the government to either incentivise uptake, or throw in subsidy for example if you double up with a car you qualify for a cheaper charge rate.

 

[crazyDAJT]

This was my consensus also. Its not a great investment, however if you can use most of what you generate and the utility price keeps going up, the more sense it makes to get one sooner rather than later. Was kind of hoping more movement from the government to either incentivise uptake, or throw in subsidy for example if you double up with a car you qualify for a cheaper charge rate.

this is the reason for the battery. During the day my house used 250-500w with spikes over this around lunch and dinner or when we do washing / tumbling.

even in the winter my array will probably run the house base load and the battery charger overnight will cover the rest.

during more productive moths it’s all about using as much as possible, the battery gives us more leeway as generation is variable.

so if I start to export to grid, I will do some washing, run dishwasher or plug in the car etc.

less than 8 year break even is good in my books!

solar does not require any subsidy so won’t be getting one, it’s viable now. But you need to have the money for it upfront as finance deals don’t make much sense.

 

[silversurfer]

8 years is very good if true, some properties it wont be suitable

Solar got massively more efficent over time. If it continues to do so the future will be replacing every window with some kind of solar panel hybrid etc. I'll be cheap enough to roof cars with it partly and worth doing. I assume it can make gains like LED replaced normal bulbs.
I dont think it has to be purely sunny to be worth having some, we arent mainstream with it yet till then its a premium idea still

 

[gpuerrilla]

this is the reason for the battery. During the day my house used 250-500w with spikes over this around lunch and dinner or when we do washing / tumbling.

even in the winter my array will probably run the house base load and the battery charger overnight will cover the rest.

during more productive moths it’s all about using as much as possible, the battery gives us more leeway as generation is variable.

so if I start to export to grid, I will do some washing, run dishwasher or plug in the car etc.

less than 8 year break even is good in my books!

solar does not require any subsidy so won’t be getting one, it’s viable now. But you need to have the money for it upfront as finance deals don’t make much sense.

Yeah I think with using a chunk generated yourself will make a difference coupled with the battery, an 8 year break even sounds very achievable. Yes that's true paying extra makes it less viable for sure!

 

[Energize]

8 years is very good if true, some properties it wont be suitable

Solar got massively more efficent over time. If it continues to do so the future will be replacing every window with some kind of solar panel hybrid etc. I'll be cheap enough to roof cars with it partly and worth doing. I assume it can make gains like LED replaced normal bulbs.
I dont think it has to be purely sunny to be worth having some, we arent mainstream with it yet till then its a premium idea still

It's inevitable that solar will becomes more efficient, typical panels are only ~20% efficient, yet experimental cells are close to 50% efficient.