Thoughts on brokering roles

[TNGL]

Just looking to gain opinions about such roles. I always see them advertised these days and I have been approached for a few different opportunities, however, the base is always around £18k - £22k with OTE of £35k to £60k. I have never progressed with them because the drop from my current base to the brokering base salaries is just too much of a cut to contemplate, even though the bonus could be much more lucrative. As soon as I hear the words 'cold calling' I run for the rooftops too.

Does anybody have any experience of such roles (primarily within the FX, insurance or mortgage space)? Will you actually make between £35k to £60k (in your first year), realistically speaking (I do appreciate it is quite a broad range)? Thoughts on cold calling?

I always find with such roles that the recruiters are trying their absolute best to sell the role, using terms such as 'eager to get in contact with money hungry individuals' which just makes me cringe to the core.

Personally, I am very sceptical about the whole industry but I can't tell if this is just me being too risk-averse.

 

[dowie]

I think you're right to be skeptical, while sales skills and sales experience are useful to have those sorts of roles are generally going to be towards the scummy/low end.

For example I'm pretty sure the likes of ICAP, Tullett Prebon and BGC will pay more than what you've quoted as a base so I'm going to assume that the FX role is at some the sort of firm that relies on ripping off small companies who have to make an occasional payment to a foreign supplier or individuals who want to buy holiday homes and who would likely be better off just using something like transferwise or revolut.

Don't know so much about the mortgage or insurance business... I'd suspect that you're much better off either training to be an actuary or becoming an underwriter if you want to work in insurance. And the conversations I've had with mortgage brokers in the past have been rather dull/mundane not to mention a bit of a waste of time as I ended up finding better deals myself online - they're probably more use for people with specific circumstances like being self employed etc.. but most of the telephone call with them involves them essentially following a script almost where they need to get details of your savings, spending etc..etc. seems like a role with a bit of sales and rather a lot of boring admin/regulations stuff to cover.

 

[TNGL]

I think you're right to be skeptical, while sales skills and sales experience are useful to have those sorts of roles are generally going to be towards the scummy/low end.

For example I'm pretty sure the likes of ICAP, Tullett Prebon and BGC will pay more than what you've quoted as a base so I'm going to assume that the FX role is at some the sort of firm that relies on ripping off small companies who have to make an occasional payment to a foreign supplier or individuals who want to buy holiday homes and who would likely be better off just using something like transferwise or revolut.

Don't know so much about the mortgage or insurance business... I'd suspect that you're much better off either training to be an actuary or becoming an underwriter if you want to work in insurance. And the conversations I've had with mortgage brokers in the past have been rather dull/mundane not to mention a bit of a waste of time as I ended up finding better deals myself online - they're probably more use for people with specific circumstances like being self employed etc.. but most of the telephone call with them involves them essentially following a script almost where they need to get details of your savings, spending etc..etc. seems like a role with a bit of sales and rather a lot of boring admin/regulations stuff to cover.

You've summed up why I'm sceptical quite nicely; looked a few of the brokers up on LinkedIn and they all appeared slimy, which is also why when I heard cold calling would be involved I ran a mile. The FX role was for SMEs and involved fairly standard products such as one off payments like you say,as well as basic hedging.

It's nothing I have considered seriously, it just seemed somewhat interesting and a way to earn a salary driven almost entirely by one's own merit. For now, I'm curious to explore life outside of actuarial and the insurance industry, although I could end up back there. I found out today that I have a final round interview with a well known investment manager coming up so I'm going to see how that goes before exploring other brokering roles (at decent companies such as the ones you've listed).

One question about the pay though; do you end up maxing out as a broker? For example, would you earn more money longer term if you make MD or partner at one of the large consultancies in comparison to what a broker could potentially make at say, BGC?

 

[dowie]

I was only ever a broker rather briefly and not at one of those firms but rather at a stockbroking firm dealing with private clients. I'm not sure what you mean re: maxing out - those firms have MDs, BGC is a partnership too. You can make money in any of these careers if you really push for it, there are actuaries in Bermuda earning 7 figures and there are also actuaries who are semi retired working a couple days a week for rather more modest pay and not having to live in/near London. (if you want better job security and the option to relax a bit later in life and not have to live in or commute regularly to London then get a profession)

Re: consultancies. Certainly you could perhaps make more money early on as a broker if you were both good and in the right place at the right time as it is a sales role. A consultant who isn't a partner or senior manager (and indeed any similar person offering professional services - accountants, solicitors, actuaries etc..) generates revenue by the number of billable hours they work, there are only so many hours in the day they can work and (aside from the rate the client pays for those hours)that situation won't change until they're rather more senior and have a team beneath them working billable hours. On the other hand this is where sales skills become useful later, to become a partner at those firms you need to be able to sell/attract more business - it isn't about being say the best accountant or consultant etc.. but about how much revenue you can bring in. The people at those brokerage firms have to spend a lot of time in the evenings entertaining clients too, though they do also get some nice perks like say getting to hire a big yacht in Ibiza in the summer for client entertainment.

Also re: meritocracy it isn't all about that, there is obviously a meritocratic element to it but it isn't a free for all, for example a girl I used to work with originally started out as a salesperson in a large bank (for rather obvious reasons pretty women from good universities who go into banking quite often end up in sales roles on the trading floor). She had some clients who she'd need to deal with but she'd also need to deal with various of her boss' clients... her boss would be away from the desk a lot and if one of those clients phones for a quote then she'd have to handle it - a lot of that role is servicing existing clients and keeping them happy/maintaining the relationship. If her boss had quit then she'd perhaps take over some of those clients and make more money that way - that is a big element of luck rather than merit.

 

[HangTime]

Plenty of 'legit' jobs working for an insurance broker, obviously there is still an expectation that you will spend a lot of time in the pub but the industry is slowly moving into the 21st century and increasing legislation and access to data mean I can only see it getting more and more merit-driven.

 

[TNGL]

By maxing out I meant hitting a salary ceiling 20 years down the line (total remuneration floating between say £200k - £400k per year). I've seen quite a few actuaries makes it to the C suite but I've never heard of actuaries earning 7 figures a year - what line of business is this in?

It does seem as though I would have to wait a fair amount of time if I stuck to consulting before I would have the ability to sell more work, especially because the consultancy I am working for isn't small and there isn't much opportunity at all to sell more work at my level (Manager is the lowest level I've heard of that can sell more work on existing projects, not sure about their ability to sell entirely new projects though).

I'm going to look into the larger brokerages and steer clear of the smaller ones that are giving off this sleazy vibe for now.