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Tommy Robinson arrested

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by nightrider1470, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Zatoichi.uK

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 13, 2005

    Posts: 2,847

    I watched TR complete the political compass test some time ago. I think its on bitchute still. He's actually a centrist. Its quite funny listening to it as he isnt the brightest chap and clearly hasn't given much thought to various political view points.

    His far right label is purely due to his views on Islam and simply isnt accurate.
     
  2. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 11,112

    Young AND Teenage :eek:

    I'm not entirely convinced that your analysis is accurate or fair. The lives of all vulnerable people of any any age and any colour should matter - it is probably fair to say that in a selfish society they don't matter as much as they should do.

    However, do you believe that Yaxley-Lennon's campaign against paedophilia is all that is involved here? No question of his thuggish criminal behaviour or his involvement in the EDL, BNP, etc. being a reason why people don't share your unquestioning admiration of him?
     
  3. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,557

    Not sure that means all that much honestly, it's entirely subjective. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/opinion/international-world/centrists-democracy.html

    For instance, Fascism was a fundamentally authoritarian and practically centrist ideology insofar that whatever it took to win power was all that mattered. However, the political landscape is a mess and it's supremely tiresome to discuss when people would rather comfort themselves in whatever cognitive bias black hole they've stepped into.

    There might be criticism that he's an ethno-nationalist based on his views of Islam (the Venn diagram of the religion and it's followers is nearly a circle), but I don't think that's valid nor do I believe he's a fascist. He just seems to make a mess of his message so much with his behaviour (whether warranted or not) that people have made their mind up.

    Sorry for what looks like a tangential argument, but I sort of felt there was a need add some background, might be a messy point regardless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  4. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,066

    I think in the last decade our grater connected society has given us access to what the world thinks, or at least what we think the world thinks, when i was coming of age Mobile Phones were just starting to become a mainstream product, the Internet was slow and there was no such thing as Facbook and Twitter.

    "What we think the world thinks" is the crucial element there, we still have our own social circles and with that rarely step outside of our political bubbles, other than those in the middle there have always been two sides:

    Those who think the state is the parent, they view authority, or those seemingly in authority, Newsreaders, Celebrities, Politicians as guidance to truth and morality, its like a substitute in absence of religion, which is why they hate those in public life who don't make them feel warm and fuzzy, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Jeremy Corbyn... are the Anti-Christ.

    And there are those who don't need other peoples approval to make them feel good about themselves, these are the people who can see past peoples character flaws, aren't in the habit of virtue signalling and are unphased by idiotic labels. In the past these people would have been called heathen atheists.

    A lot of religion is cancer, in most forms it takes it is jealous, hatefully, violent, intolerant and authoritarian, political narcissism is the new religion in the west and its church will stop at nothing to protect its many guises.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  5. humbug

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 34,066

    Edited to fill in missing words ^^^
     
  6. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,288

    You might want to edit it to make any sense whatsoever.

    To be clear, was your point?

    The left are the equivalent of the religious because they look externally for guidance or approval.

    You don't, and are therefore the equivalent of the enlightened heathens of past?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  7. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,066

    You're reading into it what want to see, the right will make the same distinction, you do it because you have already decided i'm on the right as i don't agree with your political ideology.
     
  8. Wizzfizz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 13, 2003

    Posts: 10,468

    Location: Left of the middle

    Humbug has just swallowed
     
  9. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,288

    No, I was trying to understand your point.

    Your post was extremely confusing. I was just trying to understand the point you were making before I responded.
     
  10. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,066

    Ok, I can't distill it down it will lose its meaning, I'll say this. We should drop our preconceptions, calm the #### down and realize that the vast majority are not inherently evil, we are all human with flaws and often struggle to get our point across, especially in a polarized political climate.

    If we don't start listening to eachother we will only become more divided, that includes listening to people we may not like and the people we do like maybe wrong.
     
  11. jsmoke

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 9,182

    I was just thinking how much a nanny state we and other countries have become, that was part of the NWO started some time after WW2 and really coming to fruition in the 90s. A move for a more secular world as if when you take away religion centered on Biblical teachings people will all of a sudden by happy, joyous, mentally well, productive etc. As you said it does somewhat remove the aspect of jealously though.

    All it again shows is that people especially the larger the group need to worship and be fathered or mothered, nurtured. Instead of worshipping a God they are worshipping a state entity.

    We've gone from one system to another. TB & co tried to take us from a royalist system to a republican system just as the founding fathers in America tried hundreds of years ago to build America on getting rid of all the things they didn't like about the old world thinking they'd create a perfect Eutopia. America is now coming full circle back to a European type socialist country.

    So moral of story, people are believers, worshippers, will always have a need or desire for a higher being, creator, and this can't be fully satisfied through political systems or politicians. Replace one political system with another brings a whole new set of problems.
     
  12. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,288

    Cool, so we agree then.

    Yaxley-Lennon and his ongoing attempt to raise tensions with Muslims in order to legitimise and monetise his violent thuggery is the wrong way to go.

    We need to get rid of 'our' preconceptions about Muslims, sit down, talk and discover we're mostly good people?
     
  13. NeilF

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 15, 2003

    Posts: 13,651

    Location: Marlow

    Agreed, while all the time also being willing to accept what makes some "good people" do bad things, without honey coating it when we don't like the answer we find... as Steven Weinberg might infer.
     
  14. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,066

    You only know what you are told to think about him.

    Yes. the US was founded by refugees of another form of religious dogma, as one of the founding fathers said, "This bill is an English Man freeing himself from a German King", aside from the racial element in that it is essentially escaping an authoritarian monarchy.

    Higher power faith is human nature... an unfortunate one, one we would do well to remember has time and time again led to conflict.
     
  15. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 6,508

    Essentially it's a result of people being too ignorant and prejudiced to understand what is and isn't acceptable - this time in the police.

    The same organisation that was found to be institutionally racist after failing Stephen Lawrence, then was unable to differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour when investigating the grooming gangs.

    If ignorance and prejudice was addressed, and people were educated enough so that they weren't susceptible to it, neither miscarriage of justice would have occurred.
     
  16. NeilF

    Capodecina

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    Location: Marlow

    Fair points, but "institutional racism" seems an odd comparison to the behaviour of social services, police and quite possibly politicians too in wantonly covering up/ignoring the grooming gangs, because they seemingly feared highlighting this appalling behaviour, and how prolofic within a certain culture/reglion it was, would be counter productive ("racial tension" was used in the description I believe). Or for want of a better description, "political correctness"... And this, without going into the accusation of Gordon Brown and Jacqui Smith being involved in ignoring the nation wide rape of tens of thousands of young girls...

    So, I see the comparison you're making as different breasts IMHO...

    ps: "too ignorant and prejudiced to understand what is and isn't acceptable" - I'd suggest any social worker and police officer stood a good chance of realising an underage girl, being physically abused by groups of far older men, "isn't acceptable". What stopped them acting upon it was something else than ignorance or prejudice IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  17. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

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    Location: Leeds

    I think it's convenient for you to label him because if he is as you say he is then you don't have to address any of his valid points about Islamic extremism and child grooming gangs, which are inconvenient to your left wing post modern open border view points
     
  18. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 21,343

    I'll quote myself again then from 18 months ago in this thread....

     
  19. Roar87

    Soldato

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    Location: Leeds

    That is always the case for anyone who is a prominent right wing figure, the left always just have a problem with the person. Boris Johnson, Trump, Thatcher, Theresa May, David Cameron, Jordan Peterson, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Matt Hancock, Dominic Cummings; you almost can't name someone who is a right wing politician or political figure who the left don't have a problem with.
     
  20. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 21,343

    David Cameron was ok, until he threw the country under a bus to appease to euro skeptics in his party. He wasn't even that right-wing. I'd probably argue he was more slightly right of centre.

    Not that I agreed with austerity, which was pointless as we're now in more debt than ever thanks to Covid-19