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Tracking GPU Crypto mining activity via software / hardware?

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by g67575, 24 Sep 2021.

  1. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    I don't agree with crypto trading no.

    I don't remember saying I disagree with all trading either.
     
  2. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: 21 Jun 2006

    Posts: 37,843

    Why not?

    I can understand mining. But trading?

    Do you have any logical reason behind this?
     
  3. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    Because I don't believe in what crypto stands for. I don't believe in a decentralised currency for a start, I don't believe there should be something out there that anyone with access to a GPU can create out of thin air(not even taking into account using up energy) to then sell on for fiat. So I wouldn't want to trade in something I don't believe in as it only encourages the practice even more if someone out there is willing to pay real money for it.
     
  4. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: 21 Jun 2006

    Posts: 37,843

    Do you know that many cryptos do not require GPU or energy usage (in large amounts) or mining?

    They are centralised and cannot be mined.
     
  5. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    I'm sure there are, but there will always be alternatives that can be mined so while there is crypto of any kind, there will be coins like ETH etc.

    We already had enough currencies with fiat. We don't need crypto and what is essentially a way to "free" money.

    If I want more money I shouldn't be able to just let my GPU make it for me. I should have to work for it and provide something useful towards society by either providing a useful service or make a useful product etc.
     
  6. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    Have you ever heard of airdrops, coinbase earn, staking? Why do people generalise so much that they think crypto is Bitcoin and that GPU's are the only form of mining?

    Dipping into a subject in such shallow fashion - then sounding off as quick as Neo in the matrix with kung fu. If your going to attack something and stand on your hill, at least do some due diligence.
     
  7. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    I'm not saying that it's only BTC. But the vast majority getting into mining are only doing it to make fiat, nothing else.

    You can keep trying to divert away from that major fact by telling me about crypto airdrops and coinbase earn but that isn't the reason why Joe bloggs down the road buys 5 gpus to start mining. Its because they want essentially free £££, That's what I don't agree with, it's that pure and simple
     
  8. Dirk Diggler

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Jan 2013

    Posts: 17,328

    Free £££'s - you mean like... Interest payments. Property value increases. Asset appreciation. Markup, profit margin

    Is this guy for real. :p
     
  9. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    All of those are OK in my book. Those weren't what I was discussing.

    Although I do think some of those should be controlled though.

    Increasing property value increases for example have a massive negative effect on the ability of first time buyers to get into the market. It's why more are stuck renting now and house ownership amongst the younger generation is the lowest its ever been

    The same with profit margins/markup should be limited too.

    And as far as I know none of what you mentioned can be created by GPU's out of thin air from a PC in someone's bedroom.
     
  10. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: 21 Jun 2006

    Posts: 37,843

    It's not free money at all.

    First of all hardware costs, then electric costs then there is the time needed to maintain them and keep them running as well as additional hardware to get them going and keeping them cool.

    Are you also against someone buying a 3D printer then downloading designs off the internet and then printing them out and selling them on Etsy for a profit?

    If it was as simple as buying a gpu then sitting down on the couch and money is magically thrown at you everyone would be doing it. There are risks involved. There is no guarantee that you will get your initial investment back never mind make money on top.

    Ethereum is moving to proof of stake so you won't be able to mine it after that happens.

    Are you also against buying and selling shares in companies on the stock markets?
     
  11. ljt

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Dec 2002

    Posts: 4,027

    Location: West Midlands, UK

    On mining alone yes it is basically free money, especially at the moment. Its creating an unquenchable demand for GPUs. Once ETH goes POS then something else will just fill the void.

    On the 3d printer point, as long as the person who's printing it is paying the person who's design they've downloaded then no. It also means they are creating something useful at the same time.

    I'm not against buying and selling shares as long as the companies are having a positive impact on society
     
  12. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    Owning a GPU offers a means to participate. If you want to participate, get hardware that can contribute. Your reward for contributing is tokens - not FIAT directly. Gamers can flip from gaming one minute to earning the next because of their powerful hardware components.

    Forms of hardware you need are:
    • CPU
    • GPU
    • ASIC
    • FPGA
    • Disk drives
    To name most of the avenues.

    Its not printing free money as mentioned in the above posts. There are losses along the way (invest in hardware), electric, maintenance, ancillary equipment, software.
     
  13. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    Its funny you should say this as the dialogue a couple of months ago was Sonny arguing with me about it, now he's arguing with you about it (and the ETH 2.0 was his football)!
     
  14. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: 21 Jun 2006

    Posts: 37,843

    Nothing will fill ethereums void. You can pretty much guarantee that. You have no understanding of the fundamentals of hash rate, mining and crypto if you think something will fill it's void. The amount of power being aimed at ethereum cannot be absorbed by all the other mineable coins and turn a profit. I think at the last look I did. The next coin down would need to increase in value by 20 times.

    That means if it's currently $15. It would need to be worth $300 per coin to make a profit whilst mining.

    Now if you are saying this will happen. Then why would I bother buying a GPU for £1000 to make £3 per day. When I could buy $1000 worth of that coin and turn it into $20,000 overnight? How many days would it take to make $20K by making £3 per day mining?

    Like I said before a lot of people are clueless as to what will happen when ethereum goes POS. Mining essentially will be over for the vast majority of miners especially now electric prices are 20-25p per unit.
     
  15. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    Its true that will be an unknown, but two things we have form to look back on are:

    1. ETH generally runs late like any production environment. So expect the actual use of 2.0 to be more like end of Spring 2022.
    2. When alt coins burn up or go away, there are always other things that align and you can get a few opportunities. I recall when GRIN first came out I made a killing as only 8GB cards worked with the algo's at first and most GPU miners had 2/4Gb VRAM on them. The pool cashing out was also awkward so only savvy batch file users could work out how to get the tokens on the exchange to cash out. Was an awesome couple of months!
    [​IMG]

    Grin first few months ^. Selling each token for £5+. Currently each token is worth 21p now. You have to be in the thick of it to understand that.
     
  16. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,147

    Well, there was this comic sketch taking the mickey about programmes like Under the Hammer, Grand Design and so on:

    These people who were DIY failures were "fixing" up this place in London.
    Hadn't actually done anything aside from ripping up floorboards and making a big mess.
    But they said:
    "That's okay, we haven't made much progress yet but since we started the house has gone up by £100,000 so we're doing okay!"


    Swap making a mess not doing DIY for sitting at their PC playing games, and there you have it: creating money out of thin air while gaming!
     
  17. CuriousTomCat

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 22 Nov 2018

    Posts: 2,087

    There wasn't anything to fill the void after the Bitcoin crash either. Then Ethereum exploded two years later.

    So how do you know there will still be nothing to fill Ethereums void in another 2 years or 5 years?
     
  18. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    If anything, with ETH high gas fees and moving to PoS, its not unfarcical at all to imaging competitors stealing some of its thunder, like we have seen with goliath corporations, rest on your laurels and other alternatives get adopted.

    You also have ETC with 90% of the core based on ETH still mineable. You just need a couple of tokens to rise in and once ETH sidesteps it may not even be noticed a few months later.
     
  19. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: 21 Jun 2006

    Posts: 37,843

    Everything is moving away from mining to POS.

    Coupled with the fact you cannot really compare Ethereum with the other **** coins currently available that can be mined.

    The only one with any clout is ergo. And if it takes 2-5 years for it to become profitable. Then you would have to be retarded to be buying GPU's now and sitting on them for 2-5 years.

    The 40 series or 50/60 series by then will be much more efficient.

    Electric costs are rising and only going to get worse with electric vehicle adoption so profitability is going to be getting hammered from every direction.

    If you think people will still be mining in 2 years time like they are now. They won't be. The risk will be far too great for most. Especially if they are mining a **** coin which never goes up in value.

    I remember mining ETN and GRAFT. ETN I made a small profit on. GRAFT is worthless. So overall likley made nothing especially after taking inflation and missed profits out had I just put it into the stock market instead. Not a huge sum as the BTC was my major holding which I sold at the peak and traded it several times so far successfully compounding those gains.

    But no miner will ever be able to repeat that unless they are an accomplished trader which 99.99% of them aren't.
     
  20. gpuerrilla

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Jul 2005

    Posts: 14,074

    Location: N.Ireland

    Hmm, not disagreeing with that. My addition would be the market is cyclical. Lucky for some of us we have been mining since the early days, so we have seen quite a few GPU generations where as you say the new cards outperform the older (at least in power efficiency, but sometimes hash power too).

    As long as you can mine a PoW coin, cover the electricity cost and understand some simple CAPEX all you have to achieve is selling when the sun shines. Dont pick ultra risky copy/paste coins.

    There is also an element of luck. There are many ICO type pre-sale alts people buy early and sell on before the inevitable rug pull. I dont tend to get involved in this but fairly similar to mining where its speculative and risky.

    The electric price rises are the big one this time, I would say that has far more impact than ETH going PoS. Also, most of these fringe miners will run to the hills when the going gets tough. Its great China has forced out some of their miners but I'm assuming they will resurface in another country soon enough.