Soldato
Of course its easy. With hindsight.
Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)
- Thread starter mcast123
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Soldato
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- 14 Mar 2011
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Pardon me sir, but what do you mean by this?
Soldato
If it's too good to be true...
This thread particularly of late has brought out similar sentiments. Scary sentiments. You won't hear from those that have lost thousands of course, most are too embarrassed to admit it.
You can, equally, spend the same amount of time and effort, less money, less risk, and make greater gains than trading, especially when dealing small amounts.
Saying it's easy to have bought Barclays mid March and doubled your money is about as easy as knowing you could have doubled your money on a football result... had you put a bet on. So what.
Soldato
Its not easy, you have capital which is subject to risk of total loss and you may get some gains but pay fees, spread cost and taxes on that opportunity. If someone on this thread really understands the full balance sheet of Barclays and its assets they've done their homework, most of the market is guessing future outcomes so thats deceptive and volatile. I'd say it's easier then trying to win a million on the lottery because thats a rip off but in terms of time or effort spent its usually more involved.
Barclays benefitted from easy monetary policy this year from what I've read, they are a primary dealer in US treasury bonds. They made giant amounts of money in their time but think I prefer Lloyds for risk/reward.
150p has been prior low plenty of times, its harder to rise from there on most likely. I already closed at 140p, I have FTSE fund so Ive no need to duplicate that and its probably best to stay agile. 50p similarly for Lloyds
Barclays benefitted from easy monetary policy this year from what I've read, they are a primary dealer in US treasury bonds. They made giant amounts of money in their time but think I prefer Lloyds for risk/reward.
150p has been prior low plenty of times, its harder to rise from there on most likely. I already closed at 140p, I have FTSE fund so Ive no need to duplicate that and its probably best to stay agile. 50p similarly for Lloyds
Just idle speculation that this could be a 'full' price vs overly negative pricing previous. Its especially hard to guess on companies with an expanding market or technology, they often appear too expensive but also move fast up and down if growth doesnt appear likely etc. I think RR takes 5 years to turn around so it might cycle back and forth during that time.
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Soldato
i didn't just mean I was assuming it was easy, as in the concept seems easy, put your money in some shares, share price goes up = win.
I assume the complicated bit is doing homework and researching the company to get a good idea about what may happen in the future, and then calculating potential fees and taxes?
I assume the complicated bit is doing homework and researching the company to get a good idea about what may happen in the future, and then calculating potential fees and taxes?
Associate
A monkey with a dartboard can pick winning shares in a rising market. Imagine you had invested in Barclays back in 2007 before the financial crash.... We have seen some fantastic markets since the financial crash and Covid has been the only time where we have seen they fall significantly over such a small period of time. This therefore provided a buying opportunity.
The complicated bit is putting money in watching the share price go down and deciding what to do....
The complicated bit is putting money in watching the share price go down and deciding what to do....
Soldato
Anyone think Trading 212 might be in a bit of trouble?
The outages are becoming more frequent. A few months ago there were none now it's every day almost. Some other brokers have has problems also but none as frequent.
I opened an inquiry with them and got the standard automated 'we're looking at it' reply. Then today, another automated message basically saying they were too busy and will close the ticket.
They have stopped most CFDs (irrelevant to most, but I'm betting that is where they make most of their money) and increased margin requirements to 100% along with massively hiking up spread. Saw an image showing the spread on McDonalds was over $30 yesterday. That's on a super stable stock that is in the $200 range.
I'm wondering if the boom in EVs and other shares has caught them off guard somewhat and they haven't been able to hedge the positions, or worse, they are struggling financially.
The outages are becoming more frequent. A few months ago there were none now it's every day almost. Some other brokers have has problems also but none as frequent.
I opened an inquiry with them and got the standard automated 'we're looking at it' reply. Then today, another automated message basically saying they were too busy and will close the ticket.
They have stopped most CFDs (irrelevant to most, but I'm betting that is where they make most of their money) and increased margin requirements to 100% along with massively hiking up spread. Saw an image showing the spread on McDonalds was over $30 yesterday. That's on a super stable stock that is in the $200 range.
I'm wondering if the boom in EVs and other shares has caught them off guard somewhat and they haven't been able to hedge the positions, or worse, they are struggling financially.
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Soldato
Not that I have noticed crazy outages but they are covered by FSCS, so I'm not overly concerned even if they were in trouble
Soldato
Not that I have noticed crazy outages but they are covered by FSCS, so I'm not overly concerned even if they were in trouble
Yeah, and the FSCS is pretty fast on paying out. I'm not overly concerned, more curious. With 600,000 funded accounts, they are now the second largest platform in the UK.
I've had a lot of outage, sometimes taking up to 30 mins for a trade in my ISA to go through around market open. This didn't used to happen earlier in the year when there was just as much volatility.
Associate
- Joined
- 25 Aug 2008
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- 947
@englishpremier I have seen issues with HL and Fidelity as well. Think its partly due to sheer volume of trading due to current market volatility.
Soldato
This is the problem with the way they operate and with fractional shares; you're not really buying direct.
Soldato
Halifax allows fractional shares on a regular buy for just 2 quid fee, nicer for swing trade type stuff but most often they trade in the first few hours of the day about 4 times a month and also will put the dividends back in fractionally with a 1% cost taken.
https://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/207561/nick-train-run-your-winners-i-am.aspx
More ammo for the 'full' pricing take
https://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/207561/nick-train-run-your-winners-i-am.aspx
Soldato
I don't buy fractional shares. Never saw the point. Just pony up and buy a whole share or several. Unless it was Berkshire Hathaway
I briefly tried Trading212 when they where pushing the referral here.
They were dodgy then, and IMHO only getting worse.
Definitely suspect they're not financially stable, as far as I can see thier only real profitable stuff is the CFDs.
The only profitable aspects of their business are getting regulated into the ground (I don't agree with that, but that's by the by), and at present I don't think they've got an exit plan when the profitable stuff is gone.
Associate
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- 25 Aug 2008
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- 947
@leezer3 not checked their financials, but think I remember reading they turned a profit back in 2018. All they need to do is start charging a small fee on the stock side - even if it was just 10p per trade, it would still be significantly cheaper than the major players in the uk.
Yeah, that would be the CFDs 
They're also doing a bunch of questionable stuff around share lending with the retail client shares.
Also, remember that any fractional shares will *not* be covered by the FSCS.
TLDR:
They lend N number of shares to a hedge fund or whovever.
In return, they get 'security' which is supposed to be equal to the value of said shares, so charges over other assets of the lessee, guarantees from associated companies etc. etc.
The trouble with this (as has been shown in previous broker and other firm collapses) is that the value of the security is quite often wildly wrong.
When the borrower then (predictably) goes belly up, the lender is left with worthless security.
In essence, I wouln't touch them for anything other than whole shares of major FTSE or similar listed stuff, and even then I'd be strongly considering whether I could live without the shares / cash for an extended period of time.
Take a gander at the ongoing SVS Securities thread on MSE for an example of how badly wrong this sort of thing can go:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6032496/svs-securities-shut-down#latest
I would not expect the FSCS to be quick or easy when / if they do flop. Shares are nothing like cash accounts.
They're also doing a bunch of questionable stuff around share lending with the retail client shares.
Also, remember that any fractional shares will *not* be covered by the FSCS.
TLDR:
They lend N number of shares to a hedge fund or whovever.
In return, they get 'security' which is supposed to be equal to the value of said shares, so charges over other assets of the lessee, guarantees from associated companies etc. etc.
The trouble with this (as has been shown in previous broker and other firm collapses) is that the value of the security is quite often wildly wrong.
When the borrower then (predictably) goes belly up, the lender is left with worthless security.
In essence, I wouln't touch them for anything other than whole shares of major FTSE or similar listed stuff, and even then I'd be strongly considering whether I could live without the shares / cash for an extended period of time.
Take a gander at the ongoing SVS Securities thread on MSE for an example of how badly wrong this sort of thing can go:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6032496/svs-securities-shut-down#latest
I would not expect the FSCS to be quick or easy when / if they do flop. Shares are nothing like cash accounts.
Associate
- Joined
- 20 Sep 2020
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- 68
How much does it cost to withdraw funds from trading 212?
212 doesn't charge for deposits or withdrawals.
To people asking where to invest, I have some ideas as a homeless trader with 2 weeks trading experience, I also halved the value of my CFD account in 3 days. That amounted to 3 month's worth of my food money.
It takes knowledge to research companies and you can have a go at some of them, or just jump the bandwagon. What you can also do is buy CFD in indexes or gold. Say you look at the clock and the economy is doing fine. Nasdaq is rising Gold seems to be falling. So buy Nasdaq and short Gold (Other indexes can be as good, I'm just used to Nasdaq). Leverage is 1:20 if the price changes by 10-20% in the right direction you get rich.
I'm doing this with Nasdaq, I'm up over 20% up in several days. That's the easiest money ever.