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Travellers

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Loki, Jan 18, 2006.

  1. Loki

    Asus Rep

    Joined: Nov 17, 2004

    Posts: 9,740

    Location: The Republic

    I was driving into work this morning and noticed that a group of travellers had set up in a layby near us. They propbably come three or four times a year. All very nice caravans and cars no more than three years old.

    Now when this happens the natives get restless and blame any kind of crime that occurs on them. Are travellers really that bad and do they cause the problems that are so often associated with them. Moreover is there a wider society problem if it cannot integrate people. What would make somebody want to effectively drop out of modern society with all it's trappings and responsibilities

    What are peoples feelings and experiences of travellers and are they bad for society
     
  2. anarchist

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Dec 2, 2004

    Posts: 9,702

    Location: Midlands

    With a sig like mine I can obviously see the point of view of somebody who wants to remove themself from government control and be free to do as they please in their own commune (of sorts).

    Having said that, if they do commit crimes, and leave a mess, and all those other things they are often accused of then it's not a good thing for society. Nor should they be allowed to use the things that we basically pay for, i.e. hospitals, schools etc. if they genuinely want to be totally outside of society, otherwise they are getting the benefits of society but without any of the costs, which is unfair.
     
  3. Loki

    Asus Rep

    Joined: Nov 17, 2004

    Posts: 9,740

    Location: The Republic

    Agree 100% with everything you have said there Anarchist. Often people are scared of what they dont understand. If anything it could be argued that the travelling group display a stronger sense of community than some people today.
     
  4. Bear

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2002

    Posts: 12,366

    Location: Bucks and Edinburgh

    That could be said of literally all minority groups which is why IMO we get the "Dont say we're English" type threads. There is so little sense of community, its hardly surprising there isnt any collective national pride.
     
  5. puppy

    Gangster

    Joined: Nov 20, 2004

    Posts: 485

    Location: London

    Well, the Gypsy and Traveller community has good and bad apples like every other part of our society. The problem is that the majority of those you see on the roadside have *nowhere* else to go, other than into a house, and if you know any Gypsies you will understand why that is anathema to them. The sites run by local authorities are generally over-subscribed and our planning system makes it difficult for people to develop their own sites, and that's why the Government is making the planning system more transparent, and is also encouraging (through legislation and grant funding) those local authorities who experience a lot of it to establish more sites to which campers can go... thus keeping them off the side of the road/parks/business premises etc etc

    That being said though, I agree that unauthorised campers on the roadside should take more responsibility for the waste that they generate while they are there

    And I'm saying all of the above in my unofficial capacity...
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  6. Sanzy

    Banned

    Joined: Mar 12, 2005

    Posts: 1,117

    Location: Forget About It

    the travelers i have all seen are all thieving scum , you can guarentee the number of assults and theft are down to them moving in on any piece of grass they can find
     
  7. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    They do worse than steal... childhood weddings, child and family abuse is rife etc, also their attitude for their environment usually leaves a lot to be desired...
     
  8. anarchist

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    I used to think that they were good examples of anarchist communes, and hence a positive thing from my point of view, but there is a definite hierarchy to them (the gyspy king etc.) so I wouldn't be surprised by the above, given that the gypsy king presumably has the ultimate power in the group, although I haven't heard of any evidence for it.
     
  9. puppy

    Gangster

    Joined: Nov 20, 2004

    Posts: 485

    Location: London

    I won't argue with you regarding the way some unauthorised campers treat the land that they camp on, but as far as the rest is concerned, evidence please... you'll accuse them of stealing babies and putting curses on people next :rolleyes:
     
  10. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    I'm afraid I cannot provide any links to such things. Poor land treatment is something I have witnessed. Childhood weddings, child abuse are something of which I have heard from a very PC friend who described the problems with working as a professional social worker with 'members of the traveller community'
     
  11. anarchist

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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  12. KingOfAquitaine

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 30, 2005

    Posts: 312

    From personal experience (Travellers moving into a park carpark) they leave a hell of a lot of mess. Not just rubbish but the bags of biological waste (take that how u will ^_^) that costs a LOT to clean up due to health & safety.


    N yes it is an old point, but if they're all law-abiding, whats with the new shiny cars? Dunno how u afford those with odd-jobs and seasonal work.
     
  13. wozzizname

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 2,199

    Location: Rainham, Kent

    The local official travellers site was recently raided (again), and large amounts of heroin, stolen goods and firearms recovered. The trouble is these places can become no-go areas for the public and the authorities (the local police will only enter if they go en-mass ) which doesn't encourage much in the way of good will from the wider community. So it's not surprising that there's little public support for more official sites.
    Inidentally, why are so many travellers of Irish origin, and why do they expect British local councils to provide them with amenities, can't they return home to Ireland if they want some land ?
     
  14. cleanbluesky

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    Posts: 24,654

    I'd be really interested to know the answer to this - the Gypsy lifestyle isn't cheap it seems, yet I'd imagine that it would be very hard to maintain what we would call 'regular work' as a Gypsy.

    I also wonder just how such things can be organised by crime even - I am not sure how prone Gypsies are to direct theft, but is it possible that they can make a regular income this way in areas where they are constantly a stranger?
     
  15. Bear

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2002

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    Location: Bucks and Edinburgh

    I used to know some travellers near where I used to live that used to deal drugs, so I guess thats how these guys made their living.
     
  16. tb2000

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 7, 2003

    Posts: 1,636

    Location: West Country, England

    Please ignore
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  17. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 2, 2004

    Posts: 24,654

    Okay, suppose they do...

    1) They have to get the drugs, and stability of source wont be easy for a traveller. Would you supply a traveller with drugs, so that they could deal, if you knew that despite all your cronies and you being a tough drug dealer - the chances are that if you got 'on the wrong side' of one of the Gypsies, they would come down in force and hand your ass to you?

    2) Sales. They need regular customers, or they a very rapid flow of new customers. Do they openly solicit such things? If you were a druggie, would you buy off a gypsy?
     
  18. Event Horizon

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,169

    Location: Let me out!

    I think they are parasites and shunning their responsibility of contributing to society, praising their sense of community is a little odd when you consider that there is a much larger community they have chosen not to be part of.

    I would ask the question what good are they for society...
     
  19. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

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    Location: On the hoods

    Why do they need to be any good to society? If they do no harm to society, then why can't they detach themselves from it?
     
  20. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 24,654

    Because they are often an active problem for many reasons? Also, how can you define their harm to society? There is evidence of abuse within traveller communities, is this not justification enough for intervention?